Help!!! Another brickwall

[aggiebagwash]

Does anyone know if there are any pages missing from the 1841 and 51 censuses for the Northop area? I am looking for Daniel Blackwell farmer age 48 on the 1861 census born Northop and his wife Mary age 60 born Halkyn. On the 1871 census Daniel states his farm is 184 acres and he employs 3 men so it would have been a substantial farm for the period. They were living at Gwern y ffyon, Caerfallwch on the 1861 and 71 censuses which I presume is in or near Northop.


Margaret

[Arranroots]

There is a Daniel in Caerfallwch in 1851 living with mother Elizabeth - is this not the same one? 

1851 census   HO107; Piece: 2501; Folio: 177; Page: 29

What is the date of birth - I am not sure whether you are expecting them to be 48/ 60 in 1861?

A 

Edit: this should of course have read 1851!

[Arranroots]

I have found them on the later censuses.

In 1841, his name is written Danial by the enumerator & he is with his widowed mother and family (assuming the one above is correct) in Northop

1841 census HO107/1407/13/27/13

They must have married later in life - at least from Mary's point of view.

kind regards, Arranroots 

[aggiebagwash]

Thanks Arranroots.

I hadn't thought about him still being with his mother in 1851 and just presumed he was married. I know, never presume anything. I have been looking for him with his wife Mary thinking he may have had children. I am researching for a friend and this line has been very difficult. Sarah Blackwell married in Birkenhead in 1916 age 37 and gave her father's name as Daniel Blackwell a farmer. She was born circa 1879 which would make Daniel 66/68 when she was born. Daniel is the only farmer I can find and Mary had died before the 81 and was too old to have children so I was wondering if Sarah was illegitimate and took her mother's name until she got married and then called herself Blackwell. I can't identify her on the 91 or 1901 censuses but there is one on the 1901 in Southport born in Holywell so that is why I was trying to find out more about Daniel thinking he may have had a son called Daniel who may have done the dirty deed. LOL

The strange thing is on the 1861 census there is a Robert Blackwell age 13 Cowman and Catherine Blackwell age 21 Housemaid both born in Northop. They are listed as servants not relatives so I will see if their parents are related to Daniel.

Thanks once again. I will see if I can find his marriage to Mary it may give me some more clues.

Margaret

[Arranroots]

Interesting!

I suppose it is possible that Daniel married again after Mary died, might be worth looking for another marriage about the time of your lady's birth? 

Sorry I don;t have much time to look just now, but will aim to remember later!

A 

[aggiebagwash]

Thanks A

This is giving me a headache. The Daniel with his mother on the 1851 isn't the right one he is too young so I will have to get my thinking cap on. Thanks for looking I really appreciate it.

Margaret

[aggiebagwash]

Hi A

Just had to let you know I have found him. I just typed in Daniel, Flintshire and on the 1841 his surname is transcribed as Blackard, on the 1851 as Blacknell and on the 1891 as Blackwter.

On the 1841 he is living with a Robert Blackwell and a Catherine Blackwell. I wonder if they were his brother and sister?  Seems a strange coincidence that 20 years later he has two youngsters working for him with the same names. Cor! the mysteries that surround this family are never ending. He doesn't appear to have had any children though as none appear on any census so it looks like Sarah his daughter was illegitimate. Now all I have to do is find Sarah's birth and send for the certificate.

Thanks once again for your help.

Margaret

[blackiediver]

I have the Blackwell family (my own!) all the way back to the early 1600's when Henry Blackwell came to North Wales from Derbyshire to help start the lead mining industry.

Daniel married Mary Davies on 17th Jan 1850. Robert was his elder brother by 2 years and married to Catherine. Daniel was the 10th of 11 children. His father was John who married Mary Hughes. His grandfather was Henry and his great grandfather Thomas who is my great x 5 grandfather.

I actually have 9 Daniel Blackwells altogether

You are right about mysteries. I have the branches of the family intermarrying!

Want to go back to 1620 something ?

[Arranroots]

Impressive Blackiediver - welcome to Rootschat! 

I forsee some interesting conversations between you two as you work out the brickwalls together.

I hope you will stay around and either help or ask for help once you have sorted your BLACKWELLS

kind regards, Arranroots