Was my grandfather in the Machine Gun Guards?

[bobbyg]

Collar dogs were reintroduced for the 22 Pattern Service Dress.
    How ever there were still plenty worn before then either as a unit thing or on an individual basis. Do believe the Guards MGC had collar dogs anway but no reason why collar dogs can not be seen on many WW1 photos in general.
     Anyway  Guards MGC were disbanded in 1922 when infantry battalions resumed the duties taken on by the Machine gun Corps in the war so these guys were between 1918 and 1922. The badge is the Guards MG battallion formed on 1/3/18.
Due to lack of ribbons especialy in the group photo i would say it is a wartime set of photos.

[scrimnet]

Thanks bobbyg...he does appear to be wearing 07 patt SD does he not?

Shoulder pads and pleats on pockets?

As do most of the group photo...

[bobbyg]

Well best way to tell between 07 and 22 pattern Service Dress is by the cut and lining, obviously something to do on the actual items rather than a photo. This most likely is the 07 pattern as you say as the unit disbanded in 1922 so were probably never issued the later pattern whilst still extant. The clues you pointed out earlier would to me indicate wartime or immediately post war.

[scrimnet]

I have found a pic of Machine Gun Corps chaps, in Passchendale, 1918....wearing collar dogs! I'll scan it tomos...

[Uncle Reff]

Great work scrimnet, really looking forward to seeing it.

A big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this post, I never fail to be amazed at the knowledge & generosity of everyone here.

Have a great (wet) bank holiday - John

[sw63]

I know this is an old post but I've just come to it and I'm very intrigued.  My great uncle was in the Machine Gun Guards.

I can confirm that MGG soldiers wore collar dogs from 1918 when they were badged. That is a definite. They wore identical collar dogs to the Machine Gun Corps. I have even seen a photograph of a MGG private with Machine Gun Guards shoulder titles sewn onto upper arms and Grenadier Guards brass shoulder titles on epaulettes ( I think this was a very early photo - Feb 1918 -  when MGG soldiers still felt an affiliation to their parent regiment).

I have never seen a photo of a MGG soldier without collar dogs.

The photo of your man in MGG uniform was taken between late February 1918 and May 1918 (when the MGG were re-designated the Guards Machine Gun Regiment by Royal Warrant and given a different cap badge). Incidentally - he has brass shoulder titles on his epaulettes but I can't make them out.

I agree that the group photo is MGG signal course.

The other photo with Frank Alexander Reffell is definitely RE and I think I can see a signaller's badge on his left arm.

GMGR records are with the Welsh Guards Regimental Museum. It may be worth directing a query letter to them at Birdcage Walk.

All the best,

Simon


With regards to your man:

There are two remote possibles -

Arthur Russell Pte 1432 MGG
Arthur S Ruffell Tpr 8094 Household Btn / GMGR

I must admit that neither are convincing but stranger things have happened.

Seeing as his discharge was from the RE and he was obviously a signaller, one possibility is that he was transferred from the MGG to the RE before departing UK and that is the reason his MGG details are missing from his MIC (again a dubious supposition - but who knows?)