Royal Military School of Music - Kneller Hall

[LizzieW]

Was your grandfather's father in the army?

No he worked on boats, sometimes as a marine engineer, sometimes as a marine fireman, sometimes just shown as a merchant seaman.  He died aged 36 in 1893 from heart disease.  His youngest son who ended up in an orphanage when his mother died 8 years later, was only about 6 months old at the time.  My grandfather was about 7¹/₂ at the time.  He was living with his mother and siblings on the 1901 census.

Lizzie

[tillymilly]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, but I am looking for information regarding Kneller Hall.

I have been told that my grandfather studied music at Kneller Hall, but my aunt is insistent this was in Liverpool.  I have searched on the website of Kneller Hall and cannot find any reference to a college in Liverpool, only in Twickenham.

Was your grandfather's father in the army?

No he worked on boats, sometimes as a marine engineer, sometimes as a marine fireman, sometimes just shown as a merchant seaman. He died aged 36 in 1893 from heart disease. His youngest son who ended up in an orphanage when his mother died 8 years later, was only about 6 months old at the time. My grandfather was about 7¹/₂ at the time. He was living with his mother and siblings on the 1901 census.

Lizzie

My grandfather had lost both his parents by the time he was 15 in 1901 and the family story is that he went into the army, (maybe after first being put into an orphanage),  where he was taught to be a musician, never having had any training before.  Is that possible?  The website today suggests that entrants will be free to decide after serving only four years to stay in or to take the training and experience into a civilian career

By 1908 he had married my gran, in Newport, Monmouthshire.  In 1926 when he was killed in a motorcycle accident, he was employed by the BBC in Scotland, apparently as a musical director.  He did play the oboe (hardly an instrument he would have learned as a child in the back streets of Hull).  I have photos of him in two different groups of musicians, one where he holding the oboe and the other where he appears to be the conductor.

Any help or info anyone has will be really helpful.

Liz

[tillymilly]

Dear Liz

I have come accross your old message regarding your grandfather and Kneller Hall, I am trying to research a freinds father who was also an orphan and attended Kneller Hall he later went onto play with Johnny Dankworth.  who did you contact there and how did you look up the attestations other peiople wrote to you about?  many thanks

[LizzieW]

Hello Tillymilly and welcome to Rootschat.

I'm sorry I haven't got the address I wrote to regarding Kneller Hall, I was doing a tidying up exercise the other day and shredded the letter I received back.  The address is on Kneller Hall website though and the cost for a search - even if nothing is found was £25 in 2007 so I guess it's probably gone up by now.

The attestations I've got for my grandad and his eldest brother came from National Archives, someone kindly went there and whilst there copied the attestations for me.  However, they can be found on Ancestry, not WW2 though if that is what you want, in that instance you have to write to:

Army Personnel Centre
Kentigern House
65 Brown Street
Glasgow G2 8EX

but you have to be next of kin.  They'll send you a form to complete and return with a cheque.  The wait for to receive a copy of the records used to be about 3 months, but has gone up now to anything between 6 and 12 months as they give preference to next of kin of current service men and women serving in Afghanistan etc.

Lizzie

[tillymilly]

thank you so much Lizzzie for your reply, much appreciated.

[John915]

Good evening,

Just to bring you all up to date, Kneller Hall no longer exists as the training centre for army musicians. It is now just the headquarters of the military musical directorate. I used to park my truck outside the wall in kneller rd for lunch/tacho break and listen to the music emminating from the other side. They still have their annual concert in the grounds but the musicians are bussed in from elsewhere.

A sad day after training all those "scrimnets"  to all come to an end just to save a little money. At the same time many regt'l bands ceased to exist. Bands are now shared by several regt's who have to vie with one another for the presence of the band when needed.

John915

[John915]

Further to my previous this is the best site to look at; http://www.army.mod.uk/music/23254.aspx

You will see an offer to apply for the summer academy to see if you are good enough to be an army musician. You already have to be an accomplished musician up to grade 7.

John915

[LizzieW]

I've got back in touch with one of my cousins recently, following the death of another cousin and she has given me different information about my grandad an -d grandmother.  I was always told that they had met at Kneller Hall whilst studying music - why my gran would have been there I have no idea.  Anyway it turns out that is totally wrong.

My grandad was indeed a musician, having learned to play trumpet and oboe whilst serving in the army - but not at any Military School of Music - and he met my gran at a concert in Hull.  She was singing in a choir and they met when he offered to lift her off the stage 

Now to go to the E Yorks board to find out the names of any concert halls in Hull in the early 20th century.

Lizzie

[Reggie Plate]

Hi there. I stumbled across this forum whilst looking for information about my father Tony 'Jack' Allcock. I found the info very helpful.  My father was a student musician at Kneller Hall between 1955 and 1959. Originally with the Royal Irish Fusiliers which he joined as a band boy in 1945. After serving with the regimental band in various parts of the world, including Palestine, Aden Korea and Germany, he got offered a place at KH because of his musical skills. While he was there, our family lived in married quarters not far away. After he qualified, he was initially posted to the Queens Own Cameron Highlanders military band at Fort George near Inverness, later becoming a Band Sgt Major with the newly amalgamated Queens Own Highlanders stationed at Cameron Barracks. I'm always on the lookout for memorabilia and have a few badges, but very few photos from that period in his life. I shall have to visit the museum and see what they have.