Flathers Death Record Newcastle upon Tyne

[gflats]

I have a copy of Samuel K. Flathers birth record dated 2 NOV 1854 in Fall River, Massachusetts.  It lists Mary Ann as his mother and Eli Flathers as his father and says he was a "spinner".  It is possible that Eli came here in 1854.  The son before Samuel was born in England in 1853.  I believe I recall it being in November of 1853.  That would stand to reason that at least Mary Ann came here in 1854.  There are no records of her passage.  So far, I have been unable to locate a death record for Eli here in the States. 

gflats

[Valda]

Between 1841 and 1861 these were the only Flathers birth registrations in Newcastle.

Births Dec 1848   
FLATHERS  George    Newcastle T  25 370   

Births Dec 1850   
Flathers  James Eli     Newcastle T  25 378   

Births Dec 1852 
Flathers  Joseph     Newcastle T  10b 76

so it would tend to indicate they were siblings.

If Samuel's father Eli had been dead at the time of his birth would the birth certificate not have indicated that? I don't know enough about Massachusetts' birth certificates in the 1850s to know that, but English birth certificates have a tendency to state that sort of information - however it may just be custom and practice and not absolutely required.
Have you searched for Eli's burial as opposed to a death record? Were all deaths registered in Massachusetts in the 1850s?

Regards

Valda

[gflats]

Valda, 

Yes, they are siblings as they all are found in the 1860 Census in Massachusetts living with their mother.  There is an older sister named Elizabeth who was born about 1842-43 in England.  She came here and settled in Lawrence, Massachusetts and married a man who was also born in England by the name of Joseph Webster.  Their son was named Joseph Eli Webster. 

As far as noting on the birth certificate to a person's mortality or not.  I have not seen the situation happen before and do not believe it would be noted.  If I recall, the way that Massachusetts handled sending copies of birth records for genealogical purposes is to send a handwritten copy of the record showing only the vital information.  Parents names, address and occupation.  Child's name along with the date of birth and place of birth.  I am not even sure (I will have to look again) if the parent's country of origin was even noted. 

As for searching for Eli's burial.  Yes, I have attempted to do so and I have contacted the Vital Statistics offices that cover the majority of records for Massachusetts.  But, because I don't have the exact date or town where he died it hasn't been easy.  But to answer your question, yes I have searched both for the death record and the burial records. 

An interesting fact about some of the larger cities here in the States.  My wife sent to New York City on three separate occasions for a birth record that she had previously verified the date and burough.  She received "Record Not Found" notices each time and finally another registrar got the order and found the record.  So depending on who takes the time to 'look' for the record at the Vital Records offices can determine if it is found or not.  Some registrars are more dedicated than others. 

When Massachusetts does not have a record at their State Archives, they refer you to the town in which the event happened.  At this point, I cannot do that since I don't know what town or city Eli came to or possibly died in.  I just recently found that Mary Ann Flathers probably died in Lawrence, Massachusetts, but I have about a ten year span of when this event occured.  I also do not know if she died a Flathers or a Robinson.  I have to contact them in writing to see what they might be able to find for me. 

gflats

[Valda]

gflats

I think on the whole then the odds are in favour of Eli dying in America not in England. The GRO index does not have a 100% coverage. There were no checks in the system on clerks failing to index every return correctly or registrars and clergy not sending full returns, but on the whole because of the strict laws covering burial the index is likely to be pretty accurate. In comparison the more independent system in America and just size alone means you cannot be suare Eli's death and burial did not occur there.
Have you searched for any children after Samuel (who obviously if they were born did not survive)? Was Samuel born in the same place the family are living on the 1860 census?

Regards

Valda

[gflats]

Valda,

There were no children after Samuel.  Samuel K. was born in Fall River, Massachusetts and had 10 children.  One of his sons was Walter Eli Flathers born in Lawrence, Massachusetts in 1889 and he was my Grandfather.   I have tracked all of the five children of Eli and have not found anyone with any knowledge of their roots or they are completely not interested.  In fact, there is another Flathers' line that came from an Edward Flathers who came here around the late 1700's and his descendants have been more helpful than those of Eli's.  However, I haven't been able to make a 'cousin' connection with that line yet.

Whether Eli died in England or the United States, it has seemed odd to me that there are no records of him after that 1851 Census for Newcastle.  It appears he was an overlooker or supervisor in a cotton mill there in Newcastle and may have taken a job here in the States.  His wife and family remained in that business for many years.  Textile mills in the Massachusetts area at that time were booming. 

gflats   

[JMcEvoy2006]

Hello,

I am also researching the Flathers clan as Eli Flathers' great granddaughter was my grandmother. I can confirm from a certified copy of a death record from the City of Fall River, that an Eli Flathers died there on March 6, 1856.

Unfortunately, the document is missing a great deal of info including cause of death, name of widow or parents. It does seem to match up with Eli's age as it states he was 37 and all records I've seen have his date of birth in Leeds as May 1818. It also includes his birthplace as England his employment as a spinner, both of which match up with what I've seen before in other records.

I'm sort of starting out (I've only been at this for a few months) but if I can be of any other assistance please let me know.

Best!

[Tickettyboo]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZ4S-18P

That could be the same man? Entry 58 on that image, death date March 6th

Boo

[JMcEvoy2006]

Yes, I absolutely believe that to be the same Eli Flathers. It appears the rest of his family moved after his passing before ultimately settling in the Lawrence/North Andover region of Mass.

[Tickettyboo]

The original query on this thread is quite old, but if you are just starting out maybe the following will be of interest if you don't already have them

https://archive.org/stream/passengerlistsoo0130unix#page/n489/mode/2up

That image shows the passengers aboard the ship St Patrick which sailed from Liverpool to New York arriving on 15th August 1853, lines 248 to 253 could be the same family - though the writing is challenging,it does look like Flathers if you squint a bit :-)
The header page with the ship details is on page 487, so you'd need to page back a little to get that.

and there was a notice in the Leeds Times, 24th September 1842, page 8, col 5, within a batch of marriage notices that 'appear' to relate to the Parish Church, Leeds, saying
On Sunday, Mr Eli Flathers, overlooker, to Miss Mary Kay, both of Holbeck.

Boo