Help please

[kimmik]

Can someone help me solve a problem please.

My gt.grandfather George Hawkins and his wife(?) Ellen Hawkins (formerly James) had their first child Frederick 12/6/1889.  l have the certificate.

2nd child my nana Emily Ellen Hawkins (same parents as above) was born 3/5/1891.  l have the certificate.

Census for 5th April 1891   George Hawkins       H
                                           Sarah Ann Hawkins  W
                                           Frederick Hawkins     S


Why is Ellen not named as his wife, seeing as her baby is due to be born  in one months time ?

l can not find a marriage cert for George and Ellen, but find that George marries a Sarah Ann James on the 21st October 1893 (Sarah and George had a baby girl Minnie on the 18/9/1893 - one month before they got married). 
l have their marriage certificate and it says in the far right hand corner - Superintendent Registras Certificated by me for marriage without licence.  Do you think this was a special licence because he married the first womans sister or could it be that she had just had a child out of wedlock?
This side of my family is driving me mad (or maybe l was mad anyway)
Thanks,
Kim.

[Ticker]

Hi Kim

This might be a daft suggestion, but is it possible that the person you know as your great grandmother Ellen Hawkins was really Sarah Ann and known as Ellen for some reason?  Have you got anything more than the 1891 census saying her name was Sarah Ann?  Could it have been Sarah Ellen and she was known as Ellen?

I said it was daft! 

Best wishes

Ticker

[kimmik]

Hi Ticker

l have not been able to trace Sarahs family yet.
l know she was 24 when she married.
l know her fathers name was William James and he was a Ships Carpenter.
On the birth certs for her children Minnie, Edward and Donald they all state her name as Sarah Ann Hawkins (formerly James).
Someone did send me a copy of the 1871 census but l have not proved that this could be the correct family.
l think on the  1891 census it said she was born in Bermondsey (but , big but, you can not view the image as the wrong page appears).
Other than this l have no further leads.
Kim

[casalguidi]

The first thing that I would do is to check out the baptisms for the children that were born before marriage just to see if any detail differs from the birth certificates.  Speaking from experience, I've found that the local curate often knew the truth about his parishioners and the registers often reflect this!

Best wishes

Casalguidi

[gennig]

Hi Kim
I have a attached the 1891 census for you.

With regards to the name switching, this often took place amongst gypsy families. 
I'm not saying that your families are necessarily gypsies but HAWKINS and JAMES were prominent gypsy surnames in southern England.

Cheers

Genni

[kimmik]

Hi Casalguidi and Genni,
Thanks for the info and the 1891 print.
Where did you get the print out from?
l think l will have to carry on trying to find her birth certificate.
Cheers,
Kim.

[KathyM]

Is this Sarah's family in 1881

William James   Head  M  34  St Pancras   Lath Render  (Tender?)
Eliza James      wife     M  32  Lambth, Surrey
William James   son          13  Kensington    scholar
Sarah James     dau          11  Kensington     scholar
Charles James   son          7   H'smith            scholar
Harriet James    dau          6   H'smith            scholar
Florence James  dau         4    Acton               scholar
George James    son        3m  Acton             

231 Hanbury Road  Actopn, Middlesex
1341320  RG11  1355/92   63

No sign of a Ellen ...... although there is a Ellen on the LDS site with a William James father !

[gennig]

Hi Kim

Found the 1891 census

In District 3 of Berkshire instead of District 2.

Image appears to have been put in the wrong place. 


Genni

[kimmik]

Hi Kathy,
Thanks for that, but not sure if it is connected but will keep hold of it.

Hi Genni,
Thank you, l looked everywhere for that page but with no luck.

Sorry for delay in replies, the computer keeps playing up and not letting me back onto the internet.

Kim