Pickstock

[rhoosesue]

Thanks! I went to the beginning but not to the end!!

[rhoosesue]

Found it eventually on page 52 (the one right at the end of the book does not have "Where stationed" filled in)

I agree that it says Madeira 

[AdrianB38]

I have been in touch with 2 experts on the Royal Military Asylum (Chelsea), Art Cockerill and Peter Goble (who did the original transcripts for the FindMyPast data referred to above). And many, many thanks to them because.....

Peter has a slightly expanded form of the ledger for Charlotte Pickstock at the RMA - this has codes in to show whether each parent was alive or dead at the point when the child was admitted. In Charlotte's case - both parents were still alive. I was not expecting this - I thought it would be either both or maybe one had died. Now, of course, I worry I've dismissed other candidates for Isaac and Sarah Pickstock under the impression that they should have been dead.

[rhoosesue]

Very interesting. It seems hard to imagine why Charlotte would have accompanied Richard and Frances to the Cape in 1820 if her parents were still alive. Maybe something happened between 1815 and 1820. Oh for a time machine!

[AdrianB38]

... It seems hard to imagine why Charlotte would have accompanied Richard and Frances to the Cape in 1820 if her parents were still alive. ...

Indeed - I think something must have been awry in 1815 when she was admitted, otherwise why would they admit her to the school?

[AdrianB38]

Further to the comments above, Peter Goble (to whom thanks) says that:
"As she was admitted in 1815, if under 7 she will have been sent to the Southampton branch or the Isle of Wight. As they got older, then they will have moved to either Southampton or Chelsea, all forming part of the running of the schools, assisting with baby minding, cooking, laundry and general duties along with their trade training and schooling."

Peter suggests that Isaac's regimental books of varying sorts should be investigated. So it looks like a visit to Kew at some point for me - I'll see what can be found online first in preparation and get my head round the differences between the various types of books.

[AdrianB38]

According to the Description Book of the 2nd Battalion of the 14th Regiment of Foot referred to above in Ancestry's Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900, Isaac Pickstock has a date of birth of 8 June 1790. If true, this means he cannot be a son of Richard Pickstock as Richard and his wife Margaret / Peggy nee Woodward, have a daughter, Nancy, born 7 April 1790.

However, I have just realised that the Description Book's dates of birth on these pages are nonsense. When comparing the column headed "Date of Birth" with the column for date "Enlisted in the present Corps", it becomes clear that the day and month for the birth are identical to the day and month that the soldier enlisted.

Looking at the page for Isaac, 8 soldiers have a "Date of Birth" completed - all joined up younger than 18 and all have an enlistment day and month equal to the birth day and month. Assuming that the Army would accurately record the enlistment date, the only possible explanation is that the birth date is a purely nominal value based on the age at recruitment, and that Isaac could, therefore, have been born any time in the 12 months prior to 8 June 1790 - if the age is even correct.

I did wonder if Isaac might have been a twin for Nancy, but Nancy is recorded as baptised at Witton (i.e. Northwich), Cheshire, and there is no sign of a twin brother for her.

So - the major objection to Isaac being Richard's son seems to have fallen by the wayside. Though it's still not clear where he might fit, other than possibly between Nancy and her parents' marriage.

[AdrianB38]

I shall add this URL to this mail because it took me ages to find it (I've been trying to find as many old Charlotte Pickstock (who m. a Gravett) postings as I can, particularly of Val de Kock's work, to get as close as I can to the original work)

The URL is http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SOUTH-AFRICA/2000-03/0952699114 but I shall quote it here:
From: "W Jervois" <w.jervois@ru.ac.za>
Subject: Re: GRAVETT
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:38:34 +0200

According to an undated newspaper cutting in our Gravett file, Charlotte was born on the island of Madeira, to which her father, formerly a soldier in Wellington's army, had been invalided. After the death of her father, she came to South Africa with her grandfather, in 1820, when she was 10 years old. She died at the Karreiga Mouth, on 26th June, 1905, aged 94 years and 6 months.

With best wishes
William
------------------------
William Jervois Resident Genealogist, Albany Museum
Somerset Street, Grahamstown

Notice that bit: "the island of Madeira, to which her father, formerly a soldier in Wellington's army, had been invalided". I didn't realise that the story of her father being an invalid had got down to South Africa. And it fits perfectly with the recent confirmation that we have that Isaac was in the 2nd Bn of the Royal Veterans. Of course, the great temptation is to say that if the newspaper was right about the invalid bit, then there must be a good chance it was right about the rest!

Strange really: the posts from 2000 or so are standing up well, it's the other stuff like her birthplace of Madeira being Madeira St, in London, that seem less plausible.

[AdrianB38]

I have a little more about Isaac Pickstock's military career now, and I have found his death. I got this from the military records at TNA Kew but suspect the TNA well may have run dry.

My first concern was that the Isaac in the 2nd Battalion of the 14th Regiment of Foot was actually transferred to the 12th Royal Veterans (according to the 2nd Bn's Description Book on Ancestry), when we have him in the 2nd RV. Was this an error or worse - were there two of that name?

The 12th RV's Muster Book & Pay List is at Kew as WO12/11199. This shows that Isaac was transferred into Captain William Beard's Company of the 12th Royal Veterans, based at Youghal, County Cork, with effect from 4 August 1808, from the 14th. No clue why, it just says by order General Floyd - however, he wasn't the only one.

The Muster Book & Pay List even shows us a little of what he did, because the Army had to pay out expenses for a couple of marches he went on. On 4 August 1808, he was on a 2-day march from Fermoy to Youghal (probably going from the 14th Foot to the 12th RV). Then on 12 September 1808, he was in a group of 31 who went on a 5d march from Youghal to Cork.

In October 1808, he was transferred into the 2nd Royal Veterans. His first day in the 2nd RV was 25 October - Army documentation is precise about this - don't want him getting paid twice for one day! Again, no clue why but again, not the only one.

We know he got married and went to Madeira with the 2nd RV.

His exact date of leaving Madeira is not known - it looks like the 2nd RV came back in parts and some of the officers were 8d in transit, but he arrived off Portsmouth on or about 27 October 1814. Unfortunately he and some others were "Sent on Shore Sick" (WO 12/12957, Muster Book & Pay List for Hilsea Depot). On 28 October, Isaac was transferred onto the books of the Hilsea Depot - which included a hospital - but died the same day (or possibly early the next day - I don't know when Army days start and finish for payment purposes).

He died owing the Army 18s 7d. Maybe they were paid in advance? Including Isaac, 4 of the 2nd RV died at Hilsea in the first month back. (WO 25/2354 Hilsea Depot Casualty Returns)