Author Topic: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's  (Read 31785 times)

Offline enfield

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #18 on: Friday 24 April 09 22:11 BST (UK) »
There are actually three. One is just an envelope but here are scans of them. I bought them at different times on the net. They are dated 1810, 1822 and the other envelope is not dated but is from 1915. I also have a pre-famine flyer regarding giving alms to the poor of Thurles chaired by Rev Armstrong somehere around here. My interest in Pat is because he was a local man and features in my book ' The Tipperary War Dead'. His uniforms and other items of his are still in the Famine and War Museum in Thurles here in Tipperary.
All the links below will be depeted in 12 hours.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1-1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1001-1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1822.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1002-1.jpg
 Regards.
 Tom.

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Offline jb.noble

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #19 on: Friday 24 April 09 22:32 BST (UK) »
Hi Katherine.

Where do I fit in - an excellent question!  Here's a not so short answer...

Here is what I believe is the lineage:

John Armstrong inherited Farney Castle from his father, Captain William Armstrong of the Tipperary Horse.  That left second son, Thomas, without a home. 

He signed a lease for Mealiffe from Kingsmill Pennefather of Newpark, County Tipperary on 1st January, 1714 (see http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/estate38.htm).  It was a long-term lease, initially covering 3 lifetimes, but renewable in perpetuity on payment of a renewal fine.  This last fact is particularly relevant as any subsequent "Armstrong of Mealiffe" presumably had to be his direct descendant.  FYI, the lease was cancelled for non-payment about 1850. 

Thomas married Mary Carew, eldest daughter of Robert Carew, Co. Wexford.  I believe they had a very large family and Mealiffe passed to his second son, John (I think probably born about 1705) when his eldest son, William, died without children about 1768.  Mealiffe then passed to John's son, the Reverend William Carew Armstrong, and I believe you are descended from this line.  They retained the lease on Mealiffe and Catherine-Eleanor Beresford married a Reverend William Carew Armstrong 11 Nov 1791. 

However, Catherine-Eleanor's parents married 12 June 1763 so she was probably born about 1770 and the Rev WCA above was probably born no later than 1740 based on his fathers birth about 1705.  She might well have married a son of the original Rev WCA.

This is where our lines diverged in any case.  I am descended from a later son of Thomas and Mary (Carew) Armstrong.  As per Aunt Kate, the Reverend Robert Carew Armstrong, Rector of Shinrone, King's County married Jane Atkinson, 4th daughter of Anthony Atkinson MP of Cangort, King's County.  They had a number of children - I am from Thomas who married Frances Wheeler about 1771, daughter of Francis Wheeler of Ballywire, Co. Tipperary.  They had 3 sons:

 - Captain Frances Wheeler Armstrong, b: 1779, Married Esther Françoise de Quetteville 15 June 1819 in Grouville, Jersey and died 15 April 1868 in Jersey
 - Captain John Armstrong, b: 1788 in Torne, King's County, Married Elizabeth Frances Massey, Daughter of Hon Francis Hugh Massy of Suir Castle, Co. Tipperary; Granddaughter of Hugh Massy, 1st Baron of Duntrileague
- Robert Carew Armstrong, b: 1784 in Mount Eaton, Kilfinane, County Limerick, Married Margaret Ann Massey - the sister of his brother's wife

Aunt Kate had it mostly right - John and Robert came to Canada.  Robert came first in 1823, settling near Ottawa, and John came in 1825, settling near what became Peterborough.  Both were part of a government sponsored settlement project lead by an MP named Peter Robinson to punch-up the population.  The program was approved, in part, to create a stronger militia in the event the Americans looked north of the border again as they had in the War of 1812.  Most of the settlers were Catholic, although the Armstrongs were not.

It doesn't help much with the family that moved to Mealiffe, but check out Burkes Peerage (1863) on-line for a decent summary of how the family came to Ireland.  However, I understand the connection to old Laird John Armstrong of Gilnockie is likely but not 100% proven:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ni4BAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA936&dq=armstrong+farney#PPA936,M1

That's about it for now.  I won't claim credit for most of the above - it was compiled largely by David Malet Armstrong, descended from Captain Frances Wheeler Armstrong, and Tina Hansen, descended from Captain John Armstrong.  I am descended from the third son, Robert Carew Armstrong.  Any errors in the above post are almost certainly due to my transcription as their research to date has proven to be exceptional.

John.

ENFIELD - I just noticed your post.  Thank you VERY much.  I'm sure I will enjoy the letters as much as Katherine.

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Offline Katherine Zeta

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #20 on: Friday 24 April 09 22:38 BST (UK) »
Dear Tom,

                  Many thanks for that, so kind of you. Have you finished your book? have you managed to publish it? what a fantastic achievement. I have always wanted to write books, but never had the time. Now I have the time and !!!! but I love the research.

                  One day soon I shall visit the museum in Tipperary, may be we could have a drink. My hubby and I get about quite a lot now he has retired.

                  That sounds a bit cheeky, hope your not offended.

                                    Kind Regards Katherine

Offline Katherine Zeta

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #21 on: Friday 24 April 09 23:19 BST (UK) »
Wow John,
                  That is some history, it is going to take some time to get my poor old head round all that, I have read it a few times now, I'm getting there, I think I have read that piece you sent me, somewhere along the way.
Having only just started this research, it is wonderful to read yours and add it to mine.
Well we are related, but a while ago, but that matters not. So pleased to meet you. May I ask where you are in this wide world? it sounds as if your in Canada?
I gather from your info that Mealiffe was not owned by the Armstrong family? is this so ? Very interesting it was lost through none payment, that would be my great gradfather William Armstrong and his wife Catherine, she was a Ceely Maude who was the granddaughter of Viscount Hawarden. So there should have been some money, no wonder grandad married his daughter Cornelia off to a few titles and the like, one of her sisters married into the Dukes of Bedfords, I remember going for tea as a little girl, with the Duke and Great Auntie.
I remember the toilet had a crimson cover and the Coat of Arms was on it. Strange the things you remember as a child.
I have a strange upbringing, as my father never married my mother, but he took me away from her as he felt she was unfit to bring me up and he and Lady Everard (tried) to bring me up, but in the end they paid some one to foster me. Dad wanted to be a racing driver !!! and he did for a while.
But when Gran died when I was 13 he gave up on me, stopped the money. Things went down hill from then.
That is why I have never bothered with the family history before, but something strange happened and started me on this journey. Dad is still alive aged 87 he never married, no other children. Bit odd. He is, I mean.
Strange thing is, 28 years ago I found my mum's side, she died aged 51, never met her but she married and went on to have six children, I know them all and am close to 2 of them.

Life sure is strange.

                                Kind Regards and Many Thanks

                                                      Katherine (Cousin)

Offline enfield

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 25 April 09 07:30 BST (UK) »
The reply was too big to PM so I will split it up and post it here.
Yes I do have a photo.  The link to it is below, I will remove it from the net in 12 hours. There is small bit about him in the book also below. A project about 15 years ago was undertaken to type out all his ( Pats) letters from when he was in Sandhurst right up to 1917. They amount to about 80 pages.
Here is his listing in the book;
Image 5
ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM MAURICE (PAT). Rank: Captain. Regiment or Service: 10th (Prince of Wales's Own Royal) Hussars Secondary. Unit; (Bde. Major. 29th Div. ) Age at Death: 27. Date of Death: 23-05-1917. Awards: M C, Mentioned in Despatches. Supplementary information; Son of Marcus Beresford Armstrong and Rosalie Cornelia Armstrong, of Moyaliffe, Thurles, Co. Tipperary. Grave or Memorial Reference: V. F. 18. Cemetery; Faubourg D’Amiens Cemetery, Arras in France.
Extract from De Ruvignys Roll of Honour;
WILLIAM MAURICE ARMSTRONG, M. C, Capt, 10th (Prince of Wales’s Own Royal) Hussars, only son of Marcus Beresford Armstrong, Capt, D. L, J. P, of Moyaliffe, Co. Tipperary; Chaffpool, Co. Sligo, and Clodagh, Folkestone, Co. Kent, by his wife, Rosalie Cornelia, daughter of the late Maurice Ceely Maude, of Lenaghan, Co. Fermanagh, and cousin to the late Lieut. General Sir F. Stanley Maude, K. C. B, C. M. G, D. S. O. ; b. Chaffpool aforesaid, 20 Aug. 1889; educ. at Stoke House, Slough; Eton and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst : was gazetted 2nd Lieut. 23 Feb. 1910; promoted Lieut 1 Feb 1914, and Capt. 7 May, 1917. ; served with his regiment in India and South Africa ; was in England on leave on the outbreak of war, and left for France in Aug. 1914, with the original Expeditionary Force, being attached to the staff of the 2nd Cavalry Brigade ; after serving in France and Flanders, was sent to Gallipoli in June 1915, where he served as Staff Captain, with the famous 29th Division, taking part in the evacuation of both Suvia and Helles ; was sent to Egpyt ; returned to France in March 1916, and was serving as Brigade Major, and had just been recommended for the D. S. O. when he was killed in action on 23 May, 1917, while on duty in a front-line trench near Arras. Buried in Fambourg d’Amiens Cemetery, Arras. Capt. Armstrong was awarded the Military Cross (London Gazette, 2 Feb. 1916), and was four times mentioned in Despatches (London Gazettes, 9 Dec 1914; 28 Jan 1916; 13 July 1916, and 15 May 1917), for gallant and distinguished service in the field. He was a keen sportsman and very successful in his big-game shooting expeditions; had won many races and horse-jumping competitions; was a promising polo player, and had hunted with most of the English and Irish packs. The General Commanding the Cavalry Corps wrote; “As an old Tenth Hussar, too, I can tell you how very distressed the whole regiment will be, and what a loss he will be to them. He had done so awfully well during this war, and showed such great promise for the future, that he is a great loss, not only to his regiment and the cavalry, but to the whole Army. I do not know of anyone of his age who had a more promising future before him, as not only did he love his profession, and show most of the qualities needed for him to shine in it, but he had such a charming personality that all he came in contact with loved him, and were able to show their best work when working with him or under him. ” General ________ wrote: “…. He

Offline enfield

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 25 April 09 07:31 BST (UK) »
was so absolutely fearless, he was bound to be hit sooner or later, but I had always hoped it would be to be wounded only…. I cannot help sending you enclosed, it is so very typical, and no better tribute could be paid to a man. You see the boy is referred to as ‘Dear old Pat’; that he always will be to all the 29th Division, who knew and appreciated him so well; he will never be forgotten. ” The enclosed letter stated; “Dear General, You will have been terribly grieved by the news of dear old Pat’s death. I know how proud you were of him. He was so far above the crowd of us, it seems so hard to lose him. Hope things go well with you and your division…. ” Another General also wrote; “I had met him hunting in the Meynell country, but I had never realised his sterling worth until I found him here as my Brigade Major; he has been my right-hand man… believe me, he is a real loss, not only to you, but to the Army. He was the best and bravest lad that ever lived. ” A Colonel on the Staff wrote: “I was convinced that he had a great future ahead of him, for the moment he took on a job he always saw it through. Of his gallantry others have doubtless told you, but what I admired most in him was his unselfishness and kindness; he never said an unkind word of anybody, and that, in the stress and worry of a campaign, is not an easy thing. I saw ‘Pat’ last on the afternoon of the 22nd, the day before he was killed, and I was awfully struck then at the manner in which his presence brightened the sordid dug-out of Brigade Headquarters. ” The Chaplain wrote: “I have just returned from your son’s funeral, where a unique gathering of senior officers testified to what we all feel. ” General ________ wrote: “He is indeed a loss to us all, as he was one of the most lovable characters I have ever met, unselfish, always cheery under the most trying circumstances, and the bravest of the brave. All the time he was with me in Gallipoli he helped me enormously to get through that trying time with his unvariable cheerfulness and good humour; besides that, his energy was astonishing; no day or work was ever too long or too hard for him; the Service has lost one of its very best” General ________ wrote: “As my A. D. C. said this afternoon, ‘Pat is the best man we have in the Division’; I think that expresses the feeling throughout; there is a gloom over the whole division to-night over this bereavement. I have seen him grow from boy to man, and a man who gained the respect of the other men who came in contact with him. ” General _______ wrote: “He was one of those gallant, unselfish people who had little chance of living through this war. Anyone who has had anything to do with them classifies them at once, and wonders they have lasted so long; there are not many of them left now, so they are valued all the more. This is not idle talk, it might have helped you a little if you had seen the people round our dinner-table when we got the news; he has never been in this brigade, but no one would have guessed it…. His action in risking his life the previous night to try and find the body of a friend was typical of him. ” Major ______ wrote: “I don’t suppose there ever was a more popular, keener soldier and sportsman than Pat… but there it is, you have lost one of the very best, and his loss to the Brigade and Division is enormous. ” An N. C. O. wrote: “We are all just deep down in the dumps; how much we all miss him I dare not say; other good fellows are gone and we mourn their loss, but with Pat it was so different. At present we all just think but dare not speak…. We must try and keep his memory green by endeavouring to follow his noble, unselfish life. ”


Here is a picture of Pat, enjoy.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/Image5.jpg

The book 'The Tipperary War Dead' is available and you can order it from any bookshop
. Its published by 'Nonsuch'
Regards.
 Tom.

Offline enfield

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 25 April 09 07:42 BST (UK) »

Offline Katherine Zeta

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 25 April 09 22:15 BST (UK) »
Dear Tom,

                How can I thank you, reading that memorium just made me cry and cry.
         
                Then to see a picture of him, wonderful, many many thanks. When I came

                from my stint in our Hospice charity shop this afternoon, my husband Malc had

                printed out a large picture of him and left it on the dresser so I saw it when I walked in.

                Wow, it was like looking at my youngest son in sepia.

                Your very kind.

                I will order a copy of the book as well.

                You said enjoy, well I am going to frame his picture and put it on the wall with other

                family. Then we will not forget him. We will remember what he gave his life for.

                I will even go and find his grave, maybe even this year. We are very close to France

                and often go for the day to Brudge, so not that far to Arras.

                           Thank you again,

                              Regards Katherine

Offline enfield

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Re: links to Alexander's & Armstrong's
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 25 April 09 22:40 BST (UK) »
Would you believe it but I also have a photograph of his grave.
 I am a bit busy for the next few days but I will dig it out and send you the link when I can. I will also send you a short article I wrote regarding the Gallipoli oaks at Moyaliffe House. I was up in Moyaliffe graveyard last year and did not see any Armstrong graves there, go figure. When you are over I will bring you up there.
 Regards.
 Tom.