St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.

[Nichols grave find]

Hi Carol,
Thanks for getting back after all this time, last night was fun, there is a maximum security prison opposite the cem, and a couple of lights were focused on grave site 242 at 9:00pm while I was using my torches on the same. A guard on top of the wall said the area wasn't safe, I told him the sun had been too bright and FH was the reason, so no chance of being mistaken for a lurking escapee. Imagine the talk......
I'll visit the local library and check their FH centre for inscriptions and such, even the contemp G'burn Penny Post newspapers, also the St Saviour's people, there could be some answers.
On looking closer at Christrina's details, Ernest J Nicholl was Ann Mariah's grandson via her son Agenor Robert's marriage, so in spite of 'Ann Margaret' on the headstone, Ann Mariah is probably there. If EJN was born 1885 ( do you have the exact date?) I think I can make it out below his name and there could be a date legible enough for his death, which looks like 1880's/90's. Perhaps that "little child" meant her g'child after all.
I'll see what I can find out at the library. See what you think of some of the photos (helps a lot with Iphoto).
Regards,
Andrew

[Nichols grave find]

Hi Cass,
No problem, should be easy enough. G'burn's got a good FH section, so I'll get back to you.

Andrew

[Nichols grave find]

Carol,

Been busy. At the library the Goulburn Pioneer Register has the Nicholls' entries compiled by a Mrs M McKay who unfortunately is deceased. Frederick and Agenor had a sister Catherine b.17/1/1851 at the Nicholls' main residence at Tarago/Lake Bathurst, unfortunately no other later details given. Maybe the www.bdm.gov.au will fill them in.
The coroner's report for the death of "Ann Margaret ?"(no mention of Ann Mariah) as she is described in the GPR, was given in G'burn on the 18th Oct.1853, as happening on the 11th Oct due to a "Visitation of God". The same coroner give this verdict to about one in ten cases either side of a few weeks, so it was probably for no apparent reason discernable.Bungonia where she died is another satellite of G'burn, like LB/Tarago, respectively 25 and 35 miles out. Ann T. and John's children tended to be married and buried in G'burn, again the bmd will confirm for you, Algenor and Adeline's first few children were born in G'burn , the next few quite a distance away, then the last John W. was b. G'burn 1895. Will send details from the GPR if you need for the locations of all these events, 1st and 2nd generation.
 The Pamela Ray book of Monumental Inscriptions Goulburn which includes St S's, doesn't have the inscription from the headstone, only the burial details (presumably from the St.S's records), though I will confirm if you need: "Ann Margaret, wife of John NICHOLS died 9 Oct 1853 aged 33 yrs, also John, died 9 Oct 1869 age 53; also Ernest  NICHOLS , born 21 June 1876, died 28th April 1878". So JN seems to be here, then, because there may well have been no room for extra lines when he died, his name is present anyway, and it was probably more fitting for the name of a junior relative to be at the bottom.
The gravestone itself has four lines of 'verse' which I am working on (did you see the four photos I tried to send you? Maybe I could send you via normal email), which may be helped if I contact St S's tomorrow. The Penny Post newspaper indexes led only to the coroner's report on AN, but I'll check for earlier possible references for the Nichollses and say, a death notice for JN. Would it be worthwhile now maybe getting some death certificates for their info for the rels in Oz?
Regarding other deaths, there are no other Nichollses buried in Goulburn that have a listed burial, other than Agenor and Adeline's son, Ernest J. (also not in the RC cem).Possibly little Catherine might have died before her mother, that could have been the reference to "her small child", although there seems no other name mentioned, or even space made available. Certainly there are unmarked burials in St S's cem, AN may have got the best burial, I don't think they had a lot of money and JN died young too.There is no trace of Ann Tew's burial, she must have remarried with up to seven kids and perhaps after the last of her children's marriages in G'burn in 1886, moved away. She was methodist, there was a definite meth. influence in G'burn also, her child Henry James was buried in the meth. section of the  General G'burn (Mortis St) Cem, not in St S's C of E (there IS a "Nicoll" in the meth. section of the map I have, I'll check it tomorrow. It's just a bit closer than St S's and no prison, just an engineering works next door instead - no resting in peace, eh?) Baby William b.1858, d.1859 may be in the same plot, grave site 492, also (I didn't get past checking the T initials today in the Nicholl burial records for the G'burn district). There are listings in the library for all the little (village and property/locality)cems around G'burn, for maybe some of the details of other Nichollses, if that would be helpful. The Goulburn area in some ways is still at the frontier.....
I'll see if I can get a photo sent, I might have tried too many last time.

Andrew

Could I ask for a favor, when you are at the library, that is if you have the time

I have found an Obituary in the Goulburn Evening Penny Post dated 8 October 1931, page 2, for a Edward J ROWE ( I think the given names are Edward John)

It is a lengthy Obit and states that  his funeral was to be held at St Andrews on 9 Oct 1931 , however it does not mention where he was buried.

I was wondering if the FH centre might have any info/ details on where he was buried.

From the Obit he died at his desk at the Goulburn Reformatory, which I guess might now be the security prison

Thanks

Cass

[mentmore]

Hi Andrew

Oh, what a night, so pleased you didn't find yourself 'inside'.
I cannot give an exact date for EJN's death.
Whatever, you have given so much info on this family, I am very grateful.
Didn't receive any photos.

Carol

[krisesjoint]

Hi Andrew,

A Big Welcome to RootsChat.  What a wonderful job you are doing with this.

If you are tring to posts a photo on here, please see

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html

Hope it helps. 

Now Folks. Sorry but this is Carol's thread and we must respect that please.

Andrew has been working miracles here for Carol, but please do not him on the spot on her thread. Besides the thread becoming very messy with multiple requests in in, we don't want to don't scare him off. 

For separate requests please start a new topic on the Australia Board. If Andrew or anybody else is able to assist they will see your request.

Thank You.............Kris 

[Nichols grave find]

Hi Carol,
That guard on the prison was probably relieved also not to hear a clanking of picks and shovels, and maybe even Phil Tony and Mick from Time Team!

Would have had a post for you yest but didn't know about 'tab', so I lost it into ethernity cross-referencing, oy..... so start again - are you sitting comfortably ? The G'burn Pioneer Register has a contact,

Personal email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure PM (personal message system) to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You

 for Catherine Mary (closer to Mariah, not Margaret) "Nichols", b.27/1/51 at Lake Bathurst, giving his mail address, perhaps he has some good info ( sorry, didn't stay with the GPR long enough the other day).

As to the marriage of JN and AT it was at St. S's, a cathedral, impressive, but then the only real C of E church in G'burn. The church records have them (as "Nicholls") listed as Widower and Spinster respectively, they signed with their X marks, witnesses were Daniel and May Hadwell (who could write). Their first born, Walter b. 1858, was in the G'burn area, at Towrang.There are no references to the Nichollses in the Evening Penny Post until an ad they placed on 28/2/1857, which I'll check on today.

Then Towrang, meant in those days the smaller outer part of G'burn, north of its Wollondilly river, these days it is a village about 5 miles away. It was a poor area, mostly hilly, few roads, few if any shops (probably none), windy and exposed, you were there only if you had to be. There were lots of shacks there in the Depression, only relatively few (better) houses now. You do see the occasional kangaroo/rock wallaby around, they're in a protected area, mixed settled/rural. In the Nicholls' time they would have been more of a nuisance, jumping fences and nibbling garden veggies.

After the marriage their children were all born in the G'burn bdm district, so it became their main residence. Of the two littlies, William b.1858 and Henry James b.1865, W. died at ten months, they were then back out on the land at Inveralochy, a few miles north of Lake Bathurst/Tarago. HJ lived twelve months and died at Towrang. William is in the non-denom part of the Mortis St. cem, HJ again is in the methodist part of the same. Being just babes, there most likely would have been a wooden cross, no stonework, and the place forgotten in time, the crosses crumbling and not replaced, so I'm not expecting to find William (the Nicoll grave mentioned last post is unrelated).

If you get some d/certificates for J/AN, they are available at $24.00 or equivalent, say £11/£12.00, I'd be interested to find out extra details, if you'd kindly pass on. Tell those (Aussie) rels they owe you!

If you need anything extra from the FH centre at the G'burn Library, I can definitely recommend Lyn Bonomini c/o strl[at]goulburn.nsw.gov.au     Moderator Comment: Bussines e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses. Please replace [at]with @

Best wishes,
Andrew

[Nichols grave find]

Carol,

Here goes sending some photos.......

[Nichols grave find]

Carol.
Sorry, no can do, I'm using an Mac and sending photos doesn't work using RootsChat m/soft instructions. Even then I can't get the image to transfer from desktop or  Macintosh HD using the browser approach, and entering the JPG number doesn't do a thing, even for a single photo. My partner will have to explain...

So, would you like them through the PM system where you could send me your email address, then I could email them successfully outside RootsChat. Tell me if you have any special requirements or considerations. These photos are a real detective story, the 'verses' so far read a bit like funeral doggerel, but considering how Ann Nicholls died, I think they're worthwhile pursuing. Some of the lines in the evening photos are so close to being legible, they're really a tease ( see what doing Egyptian hieroglyph courses does to you!).

So far I think I have after "....the beloved (wife of) John Nichols":-

        " Who Dep (little raised p as an abbreviation), then some times I can see a short gap, then an 'ed' with a last raised tail on the 'd' as in 'Departed'. Other times I can see "Died" instead. Then I swear I can see a lower case 'o' and 'c' and 't' to make 'oct' for the month, but no visible figures for the month or the year beside. A little further on below the 'HO' of NICHOLS there may be a small 'a' then an italic 'I', 'l', or figure '2', and while this would be the line for figures, it would seem to be a strange way of depicting a '1' while a '2' isn't part of the date at all. At the very end of the first line, there seems to be 'ncur'.

          Most of the first words of the next four lines start in capitals; the second line seems " IN bloom of life s(he was c)alld / arltd away, BY (s)udden de/h-ath a/w-- dear', or '-ath gone afar'" looks likely. So far it scans as verse quite well.The first word of the fourth line isn't in capitals, it could be "Alas", or it even looks like "Whars" (sic). After a space of a few letters, a night photo seems to have 'ntd' just before what looks strangely like a 'ditto' or '-d H' as in 'He', say, and then what looks like good sized continuous letters which are uninterpretable right to the end of the line; the next four or five letters seem to be 'aw/an/inv'. The last line seems the real point, "WITH 'her/their'/ or even 'Lear' small child", she'd have had three by then, six or so and under.

Finally the last entry as we know is "AND" , then below "ERNEST J NICHOL", then below that, "BORN" what would have read "21.6.1876", then below, "DIED 28.4.1878". Tomorrow I'll try another trick and spray a fine water mist over and see what the shading reveals. I suppose it could have ben worse, the headstone is always in the shade but with its angle it catches the rain (and the occasional bird dropping), however G'burn is pretty dry, and like in Egypt, it helps stone preserve. Certainly there is no moss.

The St S people say their archives are now in Canberra, so that's where any original transcription would be, but as considering the info from the Monumental Inscriptions book at G'burn library, I doubt a record would have been kept of the elegy verses, that wouldn't have been essential info for church auhorities, it being personal.

Life wasn't easy in that kind of life for anyone in their situations, so for me it's a real example and a basic part of an important background to modern day G'burn. My interest is also because my partner's g-g-g-grandmother was living in G'burn at Towrang ("Rocky Hill" as it is descriptively called now) between 1860 and 1880. They could have been neighbours, who knows, they would have gone to the same church as methodists, two of their children were born within a year of each other in 1860/61,also two of her kids were buried in unmarked graves in the meth section of the Mortis St cem, in1861 and 1881, the last a young woman of eighteen coming up to the prime of her life who died of pneumonia, such a sad occasion that wouldn't happen today. Living at Rocky Hill area wouldn't have helped, she died in the windy season in August when strong Southerlies blow up from the Snowy Mountains between NSW and Victoria, and even the Antarctic.

Didn't get to the library today, I'll see what I can find tomorow.

Tell me when to stop, if this is enough, and let me know about emailing the photos.

Regards,

Andrew

[Nichols grave find]

Hi Carol,

Been trying the last few days to pass on the library info, I just keep looking for other bmd cross check info and losing the post I had, oh boy..... three times, already.

Here we go from the Goulburn Chronicle and Herald ( aren't you glad they changed it to EPP?):-

          1.                 " NOTICE    (Feb 28 1857)
                                 ---------
   This is to give notice that Mrs. John Nichols having left her home without any provocation, I will not be responsible for any debts she is likely to contract after this date. 
                                 JOHN NICHOLS.
                                                  Towrang. "

Not too encouraging, not two years after their marriage, there must have been arguments and such to make her leave four kids and need to live outside and get money through credit. He wanted to humiliate her by everyone knowing, the gossip which could have backfired, and her having to come back, or that's what he has planned. Hopefully it ended well, AT was to conceive in another five or so months, probably unlikely in too stressful a household.

              2." POLICE REPORT - 11 Jan 1862

   J "Nichols" was charged by Mr. Evan Lloyd, by absenting himself from his hired service, and taking with him a padlock and two padlock keys and was fined fifteen shillings and costs "---- "Louis Drewitt, from the Land of Nod was fined £7.00" ..... I kid you not, this really was the next charge.

              3. " INQUEST    24/9/1862
   A man, named John "Nichols", was admitted into the Goulburn Hospital, suffering from asthma. He died on the following morning".
With this, the bdm and now the paper will suggest that any more JNs referred to would tend to be our JN. Except for maybe.....

              4.  "THURSDAY - 22nd DECEMBER, 1864
  John "Nicholls" apprehended by Sergeant Tant for committing a rape on the person of Jane Getters at Sofala some fifteen months ago was remanded to that place".
Not likely to be our JN necessarily, (Sofala is about 250 miles north of G'burn and too far away for JN's need for a stable basis for his work, the gold strikes at Sofala would have tempted him earlier than now, besides, he'd have had his own gold strike in G'burn with the resulting shortage of labour it knew in the 1850's), perhaps this man only got a mention because he had made a getaway to where he was arrested. Hopefully our JN wasn't put away because AT would have been carrying Henry James by now. Also because, meantime back in G'burn

             5. "GOULBURN POLICE COURT
                         WEDNESDAY - MARCH 28  (1866)
    John "Nichols" (and five others) were charged with singing an obscene song, Each was fined 20/- ( JN was lucky, two others were fined £3.00 for obscene language, perhaps no-one heard him)".
Had he had a skinful, it sounds like one of those occasions. Not too much self control, or awareness of others, and not a good example to his teenage kids.
 
             6. "GOULBURN POLICE COURT
                          WEDNESDAY - JULY 18     (1868)
BEFORE the police magistrate.
    John "Nichols" was charged with assaulting George Humphreys, alias Bothering George. Humphreys deposed that while holding the Rev. W. Sowerby's  horse on Friday last defendant struck him and knocked him down.
    The Rev. W. Sowerby corroborated the above.
    Defendant was fined 20s. and costs".

Presuming he wasn't drunk (there would have been another charge) what kind of person would hit someone holding a horse (dangerous) in front of a very well-known cleric whose word would be unimpeachable ( from St S's cathedral, although he wasn't the one who married J and AT). Seems like JN was losing it, certainly he sounds like a bully who had no sense of propriety or real sense of self. If he died barely a year later, maybe he was living by himself and not taking care, maybe he came off the worst for a scrap he got into, maybe he bit off more than he could chew. He sounds a bit of a "type A "personality, his heart may have been susceptible, emotionally his mid-life time esp might not have been easy, of his own making by the looks of things.

And for JN to be buried with his first wife, maybe there was no money or plans for a new/separate grave Did JN die unexpectedly; even the existing plot for AN is a small, unfenced narrow one ( also at this stage I wonder if AT may have refused previously to be buried with him in a new plot or she wanted to be buried in another town). Certainly it doesn't look good, JN could have chosen the site for his burial, a real insult to his present wife or else she again could have been happy for him to be there. Perhaps one reason is just poverty, after JN's creditors had taken their share of his assets, and a single grave was converted to a double (no suggestion of space or otherwise on AN's tombstone for double occupancy), there had been burials for the two little ones William and Henry James in 1859 and 1865, but maybe AT thought of a quick face saving solution for when JN died four years later and he avoided a pauper's grave. Probably the presentation of the gravestone is a sign of this rushed mismash. Even now the upper part is still detachable, because the (cement) repair is ineffective.

I'm over the 5,500 word limit so I'll email the rest.

Regards,
Andrew