Author Topic: USA births 1867,69,78  (Read 22311 times)

Offline Genealiza

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 16:20 BST (UK) »
If whoever gives the information on the death certificate knows the names, and it is usually the spouse, the names of the parents should be given.  Bernice obviously was in England 2 times, so maybe they visited with Elizabeth.  You're more likely to find a death certificate than a birth certificate.  The weren't mandatory till after 1900 and they were optional and sporadic prior to that.  If you want to check, try writing the clerk of courts or the clerk of the probate court in the county in which the births occurred.  You can google to see what records those courts hold.  Maybe you'll get lucky.
Atkinson, Wearing/Warton Lanc, :Hayhurst,Kendall/Kirkby Lonsdale West,Barrow-in-Furness Lanc

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Offline aghadowey

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 16:57 BST (UK) »
The way this family moved around it's hard to know where any of them actually died so a bit difficult to get a death certificate.

See new possible leads on other thread under Montreal birth c1865:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,248718.msg1371207.html#msg1371207 (now closed)
 
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Offline Genealiza

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 17:37 BST (UK) »
Except for Auckland who is pinpointed in New Rochelle, Westchester, NY.  The girls seem to have returned to England with Elizabeth, and Edwin has never been found.  Maybe the 2nd or 3rd marriage of Alice Vernon Sandys James lasted and there is a death certificate for her in England.  Auckland's indiscretion occured in 1898, and he seems to have kept his nose clean for 20+ years.  I doubt he served any time on this matter as he is enumerated in the 1900 census in Manhattan, not Missouri.  He was probably just overzealous in networking his insurance agency.
Atkinson, Wearing/Warton Lanc, :Hayhurst,Kendall/Kirkby Lonsdale West,Barrow-in-Furness Lanc

Offline aghadowey

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 17:53 BST (UK) »
If Auckland died while living apart from wife, children, etc. there might not be much useful information on his death certificate.
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Offline Genealiza

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 20:16 BST (UK) »
I'm sorry I don't understand your reasoning.  He (Auckland)
is in the New Rochelle census for 1920 along with wife, Bernice, dau, Paula, and son, Sandys.  He has also been with Bernice in the 1900 and 1910 census and according to the census information, he was married abt 1890.   In 1920 he has his own insurance agency.  In 1930, wife, Bernice is listed as a widow living in New Rochelle, and the children have both obtained a marriage license(1924/1926) in New Rochelle and have moved out.   Everything points to Auckland having died between 1920 and 1930 in New Rochelle.
Atkinson, Wearing/Warton Lanc, :Hayhurst,Kendall/Kirkby Lonsdale West,Barrow-in-Furness Lanc

Offline philipsearching

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 20:53 BST (UK) »
The story so far (in brief)

Starting with the USA 1880 census:
William Cordner (born c1841 Ireland)  married Elizabeth (born c1843 England)
Children were:
Edwin b c1861 England
Aukland b c1863 Ireland
Alice b c1865 Canada
Mary b c1867 Louisiana
Kathleen b c1869 MI (Michigan?, Missouri?)
Ethel b c1878 Massachussetts

1891 England census adds the following information:
Elizabeth S Cordner is a widow, born in Longford, Ireland
Alice was born c1865 Montreal, Canada
Kathleen was born c1869 St Louis, USA
Pauline b c1876 Boston USA

There is no trace of Edwin on FreeBMD

Auckland married Berenice, children were Paula B and Sandys.  On the 1930 census Berenice was listed as a widow

Alice Vernon Sandys Cordner married William Henry Trewartha James in England, they had a son Denis(?)

Maria Massereene Cordner married John Henry James in England (my great-grandparents)  The marriage certificate gives her father's name as William Thompson Cordner , banker (deceased).  Witnessed by Elizabeth Sandys Cordner.  I have all the information needed on this line.

Kathleen Cordner - I am not researching
Pauline Cordner - not researching
Ethel Cordner - not researching


FreeBMD has birth of Elizabeth Ann Sandys Jun 1843 Westminster vol 1 p420

21Sep 1860 Aghaderg Co Down William Bell Cordner 20 son of William Cordner married Eliza Aldwell Sandys 19 daughter of Bazee Sandys (could you tell me the source for this, Aghadowey? - IGI lists Eliza Aldwell)

I think there is enough evidence to suggest that Elizabeth Cordner's maiden name was Sandys.  I am confused by the 1891 census giving her birthplace as Ireland while the 1880 US census states England.  Could someone be kind enough to see if Elizabeth appears on the 1901 England census?


This is going amazingly well - the brick wal is being smashed to rubble and the bruises on my head are fading!

Philip
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Offline shellyesq

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 22:53 BST (UK) »
I didn't see any Elizabeths in 1901 that seemed to match.

Offline J.J.

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 23:38 BST (UK) »
genealiza! You really opened up the door for all this with your sleuthing
and...Paula B? Named  after her sister no doubt... and maybe a middle name of Bell?

Births December Q. 1900
Pauline James  Hendon vol.3a   page 170
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: USA births 1867,69,78
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 08 August 07 23:42 BST (UK) »
Marriage of William Bell Cordner to Eliza Aldwell Sandys is from BVRI (British Vital Records Index) version 2 which differs slightly from entry in IGI. Eliza' father down as Bazee Sandys but could be a mis-transcription although I can't think what else it could possibly be instead.

Now for a few questions, Philip. I know you said you are not researching Ethel born c1878 Mass. (1880 census) or Pauline born c1876 Boston (1891 census) but are these the same person? Otherwise, where is four or so year old Pauline on 1880 census?
Is Maria Massereene Cordner the same child as Mary (born c1867 Louisiana)?
Kathleen appears in 1880 & 1891 as born c1869. MI is offical abreviation for the state of Michigan and MO for Missouri but thinks it's more likely that Kathleen was born in St. Louis, Missouri than somewhere in Michigan.

If Elizabeth Cordner is not in 1901 English census could she have remarried bet.1891 and 1901?
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