WOW! You guys are fast... so you want the whole sordid mess do you?
John Monkman Peacock COLLIER was from a family of farmers. They are from the North Frodingham & Glaisdale bunch. John became a solicitor. Catharine was a 'dancer'. The family tells me that they were not thrilled.
John and Catharine were married in Ilkley Parish Church.
The girl's full names are Elizabeth Mary Monkman Peacock COLLIER and Ethel May Monkman Peacock COLLIER. George was George Edwin Monkman Peacock COLLIER. Ethel was my great grandmother. She is alleged to have emigrated with other family as a governess and ended up in Vancouver, Canada - where she married her first cousin, Christopher Scales (his mother was Sarah Jane COLLIER, sister to John MP).
Chris and Ethel were married in 1903, in Vancouver. Elizabeth married Spencer Robinson in 1899, and attended Chris and Ethels' Golden Wedding in Vancouver in 1953.
The Monkman Peacock comes from the maternal side. John's mother Elizabeth was Elizabeth PEACOCK, her father was Monkman Peacock. The name was carried into the next generation by more than one of his grandchildren.
Catharine and Isabel are on a Vancouver census with an immigration date of 1893. Catharine remarried - to Edgar Noseworthy on March 25th 1895 in Vancouver.
Isabel married Benjamin I Joyce in Vancouver on June 4th 1901. They had a couple of children in Canada and then moved to Washington State where they has several more. She is on various American docs as Beatrice, Beatrix, and Isabel, and the Collier is frequently mistranscribed as Collin.
It is VERY interesting that 'Aunty Bea' did not have the MP in her name, but I do not have her birth certificate.
I have no idea what caused John's death. I have a newspaper clipping reporting it (Northern Echo), and it mentions that the local tradesmen closed up shop as a sign of esteem on the day of his funeral.
The HILL children frequently had the second name BENSON, from their mother. I know Jane married a Bettany, so that is deifinitely them in 1891 - THANKS HEYWOOD!
now ...........
Florence is definitely a family name... and the age is right ...... (Ethel's first daughter was called Florence Elizabeth), I wonder if it possible that Catharine gave her daughter to her sister and then ran off with her in 1893. - either that or just lied to the census man. Some of the things I have seen on other census records make me wonder how often they were lied to, or else just took the info from neighbors.
As far as Aunty Bea's birthdate - she definitely was not born before the 1881 census, and Canadian census age is right for 1883.
Toni - I have Catharine's birth info already - 17 Feb 1852, but if I recall correctly, she lied about her age on her 2nd marriage cert. She was already several years older than Edgar, I guess she didn't want to make it worse. BTW - I used to transcribe for freebmd - their own website is always more up to date than any of the pay sites that link to it - unless things have REALLY changed.
As far as the emigration goes... all I know is that Catharine and Isabel came 'around the horn'.
Aunty Bea was close to Ethel and visited frequently until her death (in the 40's - she died fairly young), my dad remebered her well. Unfortunately, he too has passed on, or I would ask him.
The Lidster conncetion: Ann Collier married Thomas Lidster - that's where Isabella got the Collier from.
The 1883 date in the Bible is listed with all of the other children as a birth date, death dates are also listed where applicable, but no christening dates are given.
I have tried every variant I can think of, of all 3 names with BMD. BUT - they are not finished transcribing yet (and they are always looking for volunteers, she said, subtlely).
The children went to live George and Elizabeth because 'Catharine couldn't handle them', but that could mean a multitude of things.
One small correction for 1881 - John was born in Kilnwick, but he reported as Loftus, Catharine was born in Leeds.
I think that is all I know about this... but feel free to ask other questions, you might trigger something. I can always run something past my mother, who always says she doesn't know anything, until you ask a pointed question, and then she is amazed by what she remembers being told (she married into the Scales family, and only knows things secondhand, but, as my dad was virtually raised by Chris and Ethel - his grandparents - she has quite a bit in her sweet old noggin).
Than you all SO much for your help so far!
Rupiezucki
PS - I AM the Canadian connection, and this is all we have. I have been trying to get in touch with the Joyce kids, but no joy so far.
