Author Topic: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please  (Read 25537 times)

coffeecup

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Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« on: Saturday 29 September 07 23:34 BST (UK) »
Can anyone help me find more information about the family of Zechariah Lloyd born 1859 around Llantysilio Corwen area please? What I have found as follows;

He married Mary Ann Roberts in 1880 at St John Rhosymedre. In 1881 they lived at 7 Queen St  Ruabon with his step daug Ann Roberts aged 2.

1871 RG10/5682/29 pg 2-3 Vron Cottage Llangar Cymmo Corwen Merionethshire.
Margreat Lloyd head widow age 89 born Bettws Denbighshire
Meriam Lloyd 40 daug Denbighshire
Emanuel Lloyd 18 son "
Zacaria Lloyd 14 son "
Margreat Lloyd 4 daug            (no occupations mentioned)

1851 HO107/2509/375 pg 9 Vron Llantysilio township of Cymmo Corwen Denbighshire.
Ann Lloyd head widow 89 pauper born Denbighshire
Margaret 66 daug unmarried charwoman born Bettws
John 64 son pauper unmarried born Denbighshire
Mariam 24 unmarried daug at home "
John Roberts son 2

I am so confused! Firstly I'm trying to find them on the 1861 & 41 census and don't know what county? Denbighshire or Merionethshire? Zechariah said he was born Llangollen on the later censuses. Would this be under Corwen registration district?

Secondly the way they have put the relationships has to be wrong. It's impossible for all those to be sons and daughters of the head of household from their ages.  :-\  I'm assuming that in 1871 the boys are Mariams children but it doesn't state if she was married or not.

Zechariah Lloyd was my grandma's grandad. She knows that his brothers had biblical names, think Emanuel would be fitting for one. I really would like to find the other.

I'd be so grateful for some assistance to help me unravel this one please. The support on this board has been so generous. Thanks.






Offline hiraeth

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 30 September 07 02:32 BST (UK) »
Hi coffeecup

From the info you have given I would say that in 1851 you have

Ann Lloyd age 89 - mother of
Margaret, age 66 - daughter of Ann
John Lloyd age 64 - brother of Margaret?
Mariam Lloyd age 24 - daughter of Margaret, grand daughter of Ann
John Roberts age 2 - possible son of Mariam?

By 1871 Ann Lloyd has died and it is Margaret who is Head of the house
John (Margaret's brother) has more than likely passed away as well
that leaves Meriam/Mariam with her three children:
Emanuel\Zacaria\Margreat

Some of the 1841 and 1861 census sheets for this area are missing.  Link to registration info is here:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llantysilio/index.html  info on Llantysilio
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llangollen/index.html info on Corwen

There is a birth for  Zechariah Lloyd in Corwen - GRO reference 1859, Quarter 4, volume 11b, page 365.  I couldn't see one for Emanuel on North Wales BMD am not sure if Corwen BMDs are on there. There is a male Lloyd in the index for 1856, which ancestry says is registered in Corwen, but I couldn't see it on the hand written index as it is very hard to read.

My PRs for Corwen are early ones so perhaps Gadget or William can discover more for you at the Clwyd FHS

Heather
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Offline J.J.

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 30 September 07 04:41 BST (UK) »


 in 1881 there is this Emmanuel
Rhyd Onen Issaf, Llantysilio - Cynmo, Denbigh
states born 1852 Llantysilio, Denbigh, Wales

I'm confused as to the relationships :P
...could Mariam be a daughter-in-law as well?
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner" J.J.

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Offline J.J.

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 30 September 07 04:54 BST (UK) »
Purely speculation but something to look into...

1881 census Llangollen - Llangollen Fechan, Denbigh
Robert LLOYD 1808 Cynwyd, Merioneth
Miriam LLOYD 1829 Cynwyd, Merioneth, Wales 

On same page only... PURE SPEC as there are a few other marraiges to mirriums as well...
December Q. 1846
Robert Lloyd
Miriam Roberts 
Holywell vol. 27   p. 379


ugh not paying attention, am I...? :P :P :P
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner" J.J.

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Offline hiraeth

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 30 September 07 06:02 BST (UK) »
I think I found Emanuel Lloyd's birth details.  It was listed under Manuel Lloyd ???  Don't know how I missed it before ::)  Sorry!

Anyway here is the GRO reference:  1853 Corwen, Q4, vol 11b, page 344.

Suggest you send for the birth certficates to get the parents details and see where that leads you.

Heather

 
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 30 September 07 10:44 BST (UK) »
Hi  :)

Quote
am so confused! Firstly I'm trying to find them on the 1861 & 41 census and don't know what county? Denbighshire or Merionethshire? Zechariah said he was born Llangollen on the later censuses. Would this be under Corwen registration district?


Llantysilio is very close to Llangollen - about 3 miles to the West. Some of mine came from there (Jones would you believe  ::) :( ). In some Censuses they are listed in Denbighshire and in others they are in Merionethshire. The Reg District for the area was Corwen.


Have you got everything you need, now?

I do have the Corwen, Llangollen, Carrog and Llantysilio parish records - but they don't all go that far.

Gadget
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 30 September 07 15:23 BST (UK) »
Not all that much, I'm afraid, except to confirm that Cymo is a township in Llantysilio - often called Llandysilio or Llantysilio yn ial (Yale)

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llantysilio/index.html

Also - my piccie of Llantysilio Church



Also, I believe this is them on the 1841:

Vron, Cymmo, Llandysilio, Denbighshire HO107/1405 Folio 9 Page 2

Lloyd written as Loayd

John , 45-49, pauper
Ann, 70-74, pauper
Margaret, 50-54
Miriam, 15-19

all born County


I think that it might be worth me PMing our friend Paul for a look up of the post 1812 Llantysilio records for some births  :)

I'll keep looking through but records are about to be packed!

Gadget

PS I don't think Corwen RD is on the North Wales BMD yet  :-\
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 30 September 07 15:38 BST (UK) »
Also, I've just noticed the reference to Betws - this could be one of three places - Bettws yn Rhos - near Abergele; Betws Gwerfyl Goch - between Bala and Rhuthin but in Merionethshire; and Betws y coed - in Caernarfonshire. There might just be other, smaller Betws but I'm not sure  :-\

Gadget
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coffeecup

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Re: Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 30 September 07 20:36 BST (UK) »
Gosh thanks everyone. Fantastic stuff! Many pairs of eyes are better than one.

Gadget I thought I'd worn you out with those Jacksons? (Decided to work on these Lloyds whilst waiting for that marriage cert back). Thanks again. Well spotted that 1841 census. I really couldn't relate to any of the Parishes listed to know where to look. Seems a mistranscription error then. Well done and thank you. Lovely little picture of the Church too! May I save that one? Enjoyed your web site too  :D

Thanks for the GENUKI links. It doesn't explain why they swapped counties, but the parish changes are clear.  :-\ I looked in Llantisilio, Corwen, Llangar and Llangollen in 1861 and found nothing. But Corwen is so faded it's barely readable.

Thanks for the birth records. Heather I will send for Zechariah Lloyd. Manuel Lloyd, goodness me, thanks, will try using that when searching more for him. J.J that find in 1881 was most helpful.

I wanted to try and figure out what the relationships were, and to know where, in which Parish I should try to find baptisms and earlier marriages to find out. Will study GENUKI then. Mariam is going to be too early for the GRO and I'm aware of the lack of Welsh entries on the IGI. Maybe she was a daughter in law, husband had died, or elsewhere, and she was regarded as a daughter. Same with Margaret. Maybe they were illigitimate. Someone in there must have married a Roberts at some point. An unknown daughter. It's horribly inconclusive from the census.

So if Zechariah said Llangollen, it included Llantysilio. That's promising. Bettws not so obvious then. Margaret seemed keen to get that right on the census, everyone else is just 'Denbighshire'.

Crumbs! Paupers in 1841, 51 and probably 71, all VRON Cottage, has to be Vron in 1861 too then. Makes you wonder how they lived so long! Worked for food maybe?

Thanks all, very very much appreciated.