Author Topic: The Murder of John PAYNE of Billington  (Read 7522 times)

Offline Darren S

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Re: The Murder of John PAYNE of Billington
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 21 June 08 21:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Lynda,

The only two Elizabeth Pain/Paynes who were baptised in Billington, Beds (according to the IGI) were both sisters of John Pain/Payne, born 1780 in Billington, who my wife is descended from.

I suspect that the John Pain who was murdered was the father of my John Pain; and if so, the father of your Elizabeth as well. I know their father is called John Pain, I just can't prove definitively that this John Pain and the murdered one are one and the same.

The two Elizabeths were christened on 04/11/1787 and 14/12/1794. I would presume the elder Elizabeth died in infancy, so they reused the forename; and that therefore your ancestor is probably the one from 1794.

Regards
Darren


Offline Lyndyloub

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Re: The Murder of John PAYNE of Billington
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 21 June 08 23:08 BST (UK) »
Hi David,
Many thanks for your reply.  The murder makes fascinating reading.  Were there many more brothers & sisters to Elizabeth?
Lynda

Offline Darren S

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Re: The Murder of John PAYNE of Billington
« Reply #11 on: Friday 27 June 08 11:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Lynda (who's David?)  ;D

There were 9 siblings that I know about, as follows:

1780 John
1783 Joseph
1785 Sarah
1787 Elizabeth
1789 James
1792 William
1794 Elizabeth
1798 James
1800 Mary.

Darren

Offline Lyndyloub

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Re: The Murder of John PAYNE of Billington
« Reply #12 on: Friday 27 June 08 13:56 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for that Darren!
Regards
Lynda


Offline Mark Frost

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Re: The Murder of John PAYNE of Billington
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 26 November 17 03:45 GMT (UK) »
This is a bit late now but....John Payne, sack carrier, was my 5x great grandfather. Born Heath, Beds., 1754 to John and Mary Payne/Pain. Married Ann Proctor at L. Buzzard 1780. All children born Billington - John 1780, Joseph 1783, Sarah 1785, Elizabeth 1787, James 1789, William 1792. Carried local farmers grain and crops to market at Hemel Hempstead once a week on commission, sleeping in his cart over the 2 or 3 days of the collection route and return route to pay sale proceeds. Murdered on return route outside the Red Lion at Dagnall 1817 by one of his customers, Daniel Munn, an early 'serial killer' who also confessed to killing his neighbour and his own wife. Sarah Payne, spinster daughter of the deceased, was one of the witnesses at the trial. A number of 'penny dreadful' broadsheets were produced for sale on the murder, one entitled “The execution and confession of Daniel Munn, (a small farmer, at Dagnall) of three murders and his intention of committing four others: Also his having been an accessory in the death of the watchman, of the Earl of Bridgwater. Who was tried July 25, and executed at Hertford, on Monday, the 28th ... “

Offline Darren S

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Re: The Murder of John PAYNE of Billington
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 11 January 18 13:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mark

Thanks for writing! It seems there are quite a few people descended from the murdered John Pain.

Did you notice on the previous page that the burial record showed that John was 56 at the time of death? So he can't be the one who was baptised in 1754. That's probably someone else with the same name (maybe a cousin or even older brother who died). But everything else is correct including the marriage to Ann Proctor. There were three other children after William 1792, including another Elizabeth whose descendant also wrote in this thread.