Author Topic: Surname given?  (Read 5459 times)

Offline shazzi_b

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Surname given?
« on: Monday 12 November 07 21:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I have just managed to trace a long lost rellie who died in WW1 (with very kind help of the WW! board - thanks guys!)

I know that his girlfriend gave birth to a daughter whom he never saw as she was born after his death.  as he wasnt married, would the daughter have been given his surname, or hers?

any opinions welcomed!
Northumberland - Addison, Bowles, Kirkup, Lowes, Mason, Patterson, Richley, Venus, Wardle, Williams
Durham - Pears, Robertson, Richley, richelieu, Summerell
Norfolk and Essex - Bowles, Ninham, Wiseman
Glos - Summerell, Williams

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 12 November 07 22:19 GMT (UK) »
The child should have been registered in the mother's maiden name.
If they weren't married the father's name should only be entered if the father was present -I know this wouldn't be possible in this case (but even then the child would be registered in the mother's maiden name -even though the father's name would be on registration)
Sometimes the child would be brought up (unofficially)using his/her father's name

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline shazzi_b

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 13 November 07 19:37 GMT (UK) »
thanks for that.

Its what I expected (unfortunately) - I dont have any idea of the mothers surname!

have to keep digging!

thanks again
Northumberland - Addison, Bowles, Kirkup, Lowes, Mason, Patterson, Richley, Venus, Wardle, Williams
Durham - Pears, Robertson, Richley, richelieu, Summerell
Norfolk and Essex - Bowles, Ninham, Wiseman
Glos - Summerell, Williams

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 14 November 07 11:13 GMT (UK) »


Hope my but-in does not hinder !
----------------------------------------------------------

My father's birth was registered in WW1 era (1918).

Looking at his copy birth certificate, I see that his surname was not recorded.... no column for it !

Column 4 is for " Name and Surname of Father"

Column 5 is for " Name and Maiden Surname of Mother"

For the child, Column 2 is for " Name(if any) ".

My father's first name James, is recorded here with no surname.

--------------------------------------------

Looking at my birth cert, 1941, I see that ditto applies to me. Also to my grandfather's 1875.

( I cover a range of years in case the info recorded on registration, changed over the years ). I have a hunch that today children are registered with name and surname ??
-----------------------------------------------------------------

But as far as indexing of registrations goes, he would have to have been indexed under some surname.. Dixon in his case.

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To find the birth registration of a child whose surname is unknown would be very difficult, but maybe not impossible !

From the quarter ending Sept 1911, GRO birth indexes included both the child's father's surname and the mother's maiden surname.

Where the mother of the child was not married to the child's father, the birth registration index would include the mother's maiden name twice.

So ( assuming you have dtr's first name and an idea of where and when born/registered) get into those indexes !

Would the addresses of your WW1 relative and the girlfriend afford any additional clues as to the identity of the child ?

Michael Dixon
Newcastle

Names.

GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY  - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND

Census information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.


Offline shazzi_b

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 18 November 07 21:33 GMT (UK) »
thanks for that information Michael - there is sooooo much I dont know (and didnt realise it until I started this!)

The only information I have is that the mother of the child was called Julia Anne, had the baby after the father (joseph Henderson williams) died in March 1918 and the baby was called Mildred.  Her mother (Julia Anne) later married Tommy Nevins (who died in Washington 1950) and later again died in Washington Village Holy Trinity (in 1960).  i can only find a marriage of Thomas Nevins in 1915 to Ethel Lee, but my mother is definate that Josephs girlfrirend was called Julia Anne.

anything you can spot would be great - but I will keep on digging!
Northumberland - Addison, Bowles, Kirkup, Lowes, Mason, Patterson, Richley, Venus, Wardle, Williams
Durham - Pears, Robertson, Richley, richelieu, Summerell
Norfolk and Essex - Bowles, Ninham, Wiseman
Glos - Summerell, Williams

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 18 November 07 22:26 GMT (UK) »
shazzi,

What luck... an uncommon first name MILDRED.

Where was Mildred born ?

I have had a quick look at birth registrations for Mildreds in Northumberland (less than 50.. I've forgotten ) and Co Durham ( c90)... but could not see a suitable Mildred...

Over to you .

Michael
Names.

GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY  - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND

Census information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.

Offline shazzi_b

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 20 November 07 21:20 GMT (UK) »
Michael

Unfortunatley I dont know where Mildred was born - her father was from Gosforth and my mother remembers visiting Julia Anne in Washington village when she (my mother) was a child. 

Dont have any more than that, Im afraid!

Sharon
Northumberland - Addison, Bowles, Kirkup, Lowes, Mason, Patterson, Richley, Venus, Wardle, Williams
Durham - Pears, Robertson, Richley, richelieu, Summerell
Norfolk and Essex - Bowles, Ninham, Wiseman
Glos - Summerell, Williams

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Northerngirl

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 November 07 08:03 GMT (UK) »
Shazzi I wonder if I'm picking this up wrongly.

Are you saying that Julie Ann - Mildred's mother married  Thomas Nevins after 1918 - if so then her name can be matched with Nevins on the BMD surely.

Only a thought - apologies if I've read it incorrectly.

J.A.
SCOTLAND
KBC interests - Murray and Shaw: Blacklock and Kirkland.
DMS interests - as KBC.

ENGLAND
Northumberland
Murray: > 1920 in Longbenton/Forest Hall; Howick 1920's
Elliott: North Nbld 1800's
Straughan/Straphen: North Nbld 1800's and 1910's/1920's Craster.
Henderson(nee Elliott)/Brodie Haydon Bridge 1900's
Bell (nee Elliott) Christon Bank/Embleton 1900's

IRELAND
County Mayo
Mills: Erris Head and Gortmellia
Mullarky: as same
Ginnelly: as same

Offline shazzi_b

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Re: Surname given?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 22 November 07 20:20 GMT (UK) »
no - youre reading it correctly - its just that on BMD the only Thomas Nevins marriage I can find is 1915 - too early - and its to an Ethel Lee.

Im not sure exactly when she married Tommy - I suppose I could go through the original docs from 1918 onwards......... an idea, I suppose!

thanks - I'll let you know if I find it!
Northumberland - Addison, Bowles, Kirkup, Lowes, Mason, Patterson, Richley, Venus, Wardle, Williams
Durham - Pears, Robertson, Richley, richelieu, Summerell
Norfolk and Essex - Bowles, Ninham, Wiseman
Glos - Summerell, Williams

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk