RATCLIFFE's from Kent

[jmp]

Yes I have Ratley's who are obviously Ratcliffs and later transcribed as such

[Modbury]

Thanks for the info, more research needed on those 2 Tony, thanks.

I have in the past gone through my cd's from S&N and the KFHS and found possibles, which are,

Daniel RATTLEY marriage to Elizabeth PHIPPS 28/11/1799 at River

Daniel RATCLIFF marriage to Esther (Hester) PAY  18/4/1818 at River, Papermaker, which had a son called Daniel M RATCLIFF bapt 6/4/1823 River.

Hastingleigh, Kent; Burial. Daniel RATCLIFFE 28/12/1842 at the East Ashford Union House aged 79. This might be a error in date transcript.

Dover St James a Daniel RATCLIFF married Mary PAY (sister to Hester) 17/12/1820.

Daniel RATCLIFFE died in the Sept Qtr 1851 Dover.
Daniel RATCLIFFE died in the Dec Qtr 1884 Eastry Kent, aged 82.
Daniel RATCLIFF   died in the March Qtr 1850 Milton, Kent.
Daniel RATCLIFF   died in the Dec Qtr 1914 Dover

Could not find any deaths for Daniel RATLEY.

Anyway thanks for the input.

Kind Regards

Bernie

[dempstere]

Elizabeth Hammond was my 4-greats grandmother. She had a daughter in 1799 with Samuel Fasham Roby, who was a wealthy attorney in Deal, and heir to the manor at Great Mongeham. She named her daughter Frances Roby, the same name as Samuel Fasham Roby's sister.

Frances Roby Hammond became housekeeper to Jacob Mills Davey in Ash around 1817, and bore him two sons, the first in 1818 and the second in 1820. She named them so as to identify HER father: Frederick Roby and Norris Fasham Roby. Samuel Fasham Roby had a second illegitimate daughter in 1813 with Hester Reynolds, whom he married in 1818. He died in 1823, leaving an annuity of ten pounds a year to Frances Roby Hammond, and all the interest on his various properties, lands, etc. to Anna Maria Roby.

Frances Roby Hammond married the father of her two sons, Jacob Mills Davey, in 1829. Her sons went to the King's School in Canterbury. Frederick became a surveyor and Norris a physician. I am descended from Norris. I would love to know more about Elizabeth Hammond and her family with John Radcliff.

[jmp]

Hello Dempstere and welcome to Rootschat

How lovely to hear from a relative! John and Elizabeth are also my Great x4grandparents on my mothers side.

Its really interesting to hear about Elizabeth's first "liason" with Samuel Roby, I didnt know any of that although did know about the birth of Frances.

John and Elizabeth married in Ash near Sandwich on 18th March 1800. John had previously been married in 1790 to a Mary Chandler but she had died in December 1799, and they had had at least one child together - Thomas born 1792. So John was about 37 when he married Elizabeth who was 22. Together they had 8 more children:-
John baptised in Ash 8 Mar 1801 but there is a slight possibility he may have been born before they married. He married Elizabeth Gage in 1821 and died 5 Feb 1877 aged 79 in Ash and was a weaver

It then appears the family move from Ash as their next son William is born in Whitfield in 1803. William is my line. He was baptised on 13 Feb 1803 in Whitfield, goes on to marry Jane Kirby and had a number of children. Im still not certain what happened to him although his youngest daughter Jane is returned to Ash shortly after her mother dies in 1832 and is brought up by brother John and his wife.
The next child is George baptised 29 May 1807 again in Whitfield.
Then Hannah baptised 4 Mar 1810 in Whitfield. She marries Henry Beerling 7 Dec 1828 in Ash.
The next child I believe is Eliza again possibly born in Whitfield. I havent found a baptism for her though so the family may well have been on the move at the time. From the Censuses she was born around 1812. She is a witness at Hannah's marriage ( above)
Edward also born in Whitfield and baptised there on 21 Jan 1816.
The family then move back to Ash as the next child Charles is baptised there 31 May 1818 and finally the last child Harriet is baptised in Ash 7 Sep 1823.

John was primarily a labourer and or Ag Lab. he is recorded in the Militia muster roll in 1798 as "a labourer with a spade" ! It would appear that the family were not well to do. John died just before the 1851 Census was taken, in which Elizabeth is listed a pauper, so it must have been a pretty tough life for them.

You have probably already got Elizabeth's parents as Mark Hammond and Elizabeth Pointer who married in 1760 in Ash. I'm afraid I haven't gone back any further on that line yet but if you have any further information I would love to have it.
Anyway, its great to hear from you and if you want any further info please feel free to get in touch
All the best
Jackie

[dempstere]

Hi Jackie
Thank you for the valuable information. So sad to hear that Elizabeth became a pauper! Her daughter, Frances Roby Davey, lived a long life, despite difficulties with her husband Jacob Mills Davey. They never had more children together, but at least having a father enabled their two sons to be well educated and break the cycle of poverty. Norris, particularly, seems to have been a brilliant man, with many interests besides medicine. His father, Jacob, died in 1845, leaving a will written on his deathbed which excluded his own family from inheriting anything. He requested an inscription on his grave "By friends supported, by family neglected". Ouch! Everything was left to a lady called Mary Ann Marshall, who was a milliner in Canterbury. A year later, his son, Frederick took his own life at the age of 27. He was buried in Kensal Green Cemetery in the same grave as his father, and the gravestone is mercifully not there.

Frances Roby Davey was remembered by one of her grandsons as a wonderful countrywoman, extremely intelligent. She lived in Stock and died aged 87. I suppose that as a child, she moved around with Elizabeth and John, with little chance of an education. I have great admiration for her, my 3-greats-grandmother.

[jmp]

Thats a wonderful story, thanks very much for sharing it with me Dempstere.

Its great to know that the boys made good no doubt as a result of their mothers efforts. Pity that Frederick died so young though.

Thanks again for all the information
Cheers
Jackie

[David Boulding]

I have a family bible which mentions Daniel Ratcliff born 1815 died 1850 Bredgar. This appears to be the same family of (probably grandparents) John (d 1833 age 91) & Mary (d 1824 age 96)  Ratcliff.

There's a page about the Ratcliffs in the bible.

Daniel isn't a common or garden name so there may well be a link.

Is this of interest?

I was bored on afternoon so I did a family tree for the Ratcliff family using info from my family bible.

As per Boulding family bible


John Ratcliff [possibly son of Richard & Mary Ratcliff of Swingfield] was born  around 1743.

He married Susanna Burch in 1772 in Ashford but after bearing him three children she died just after the birth of Richard (bapt Feb 2nd 1777) on 2nd March 1777. John promptly remarried to Mary (nee Boulding) Stretfield widow of Dymchurch  in October 1777. Mary appears to have been considerably older than John by around 15 years

John Ratcliff b1743 Swingfield - d1833 Bredgar (probably son of John & Mary Ratcliff)
1) Susanna Burch b           - d1777 Ashford
Ashford 1772
1772 Apl 2    Ratcliff John of St. Mary’s, Canterbury & Susanna Burch.
1773 Dec 29                            Susanna, dau. of John Ratcliff - d1777 Ashford
1775 Mar 26                                John, son of John Ratcliff
1777 Feb 2                              Richard, son of John Ratcliff
2) Mary Stretfield  widow (nee Boulding) b1727 Crundale - d1823 Bredgar (dau of Thomas & Mary Boulding)
Ashford 1777

Richard Ratcliff b1777 Ashford  - d1854 Bredgar (son of John & Susanna Ratcliff)
1) Susanna Pye b1786            - d1810 Bredgar aged 24
Ashford 1805
1806 Richard & Susan Ratcliff      Richard         Bredgar - m1844 Margaret Warren (in 1861 Hartfield Sussex) Richard d1886 Ninfield Sx.& Margaret d1895 Ninfield
1808 Richard & Susan Ratcliff      Susan         Bredgar
1810 Richard & Susan Ratcliff      Jane         Bredgar
2) Elizabeth Wise b1778 Tong   - d1861 Bredgar
Sittingbourne 1811
1812 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   John         Bredgar - not found
1815 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   Daniel          Bredgar - d1850 buried by his grandmother's grave at Bredgar
1816 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   Mary         Bredgar
1818 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   Elizabeth Stanley   Bredgar   

[David Boulding]

1861 ... Farm, Parrock Lane, Hartfield, East Grinstead, Sussex, England
Richard    Ratcliff    Head    Married    Male    54    1807    Farmer Of 536 Acres Employing 18 Men And... Boys    Bredgar, Kent, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Wife    Married    Female    50    1811    Farmers Wife    Canterbury, Kent, England    
Edward B    Ratcliff    Son    -       Male    12    1849    Scholar    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Henry P    Ratcliff    Son    -       Male    8    1853    Scholar    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
William E    Thompson    Pupil    -       Male    17    1844    Farmer Pupil    London, Middlesex, England    
Esther       Coombes    Servant Unmarried    Female    28    1833    House Servant    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
George       Young    Servant    -       Male    13    1848    Farm Servant    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
James       Mitchill    Servant    -    Male    15    1846    Farm Servant    Hartfield, Sussex, England

1871  Standard Hill, Ninfield, Hailsham, Sussex, England
Richard    Ratcliff    Head    -    Male    64    1807    -    Kent, England    
Margeret    Ratcliff    Wife    -    Female    60    1811    -    Kent, England    
Jane       Ratcliff    Daughter    Female    29    1842    -    Kent, England    
Edwd B       Ratcliff    Son    -    Male    22    1849    -    Sussex, England    
Henry P    Ratcliff    Son    -    Male    18    1853    -    Sussex, England    
Ruth       Barton    Servant    -    Female    18    1853    -    Sussex, England

1881 Lower Standard Hill, Ninfield, Hailsham, Sussex, England
Richard    Ratcliff    Head    Married    Male    76    1805    Farmer Grazier Of 420 Acres Employing 8 Men & 3 Boys    Kent, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Wife    Married    Female    70    1811    Farmers Wife    Canterbury, Kent, England    
Henry P    Ratcliff    Son    Single       Male    28    1853    Farmers Son    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Ellnor A    Ratcliff    Grand Daughter    Single    Female    18    1863    -    Southborough, Kent, England    
Frances S    Munn    Servant    Single       Female    17    1864    General Servant    Ninfield, Sussex, England

1891 Lower Standard Hill, Ninfield, Hailsham, Sussex, England
Henry P    Ratcliff    Head    Married    Male    38    1853    Farmer    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Kate       Ratcliff    Wife    Married    Female    37    1854    -    Chelsea, Middlesex, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Daughter    -    Female    5    1886    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Kate D       Ratcliff    Daughter    -    Female    4    1887    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Warren P    Ratcliff    Son    -       Male    2    1889    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Sarah       Coleman    Servant Single       Female    21    1870    General Servant Domestic    Canterbury, Kent, England    
Jemima G    Sinden       Nurse    Single       Female    15    1876    General Servant Domestic    Hailsham, Sussex, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Mother    Widow       Female    80    1811    Living On Her Own Means    Herstmonceaux, Sussex, England

1901 Pebsham Farm, Bexhill, Battle, Sussex, England
Henry P    Ratcliffe    Head    Married    Male    48    1853    Farmer    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Kate       Ratcliffe    Wife    Married    Female    47    1854    -    Chelsea, Middlesex, England    
Maggie       Ratcliffe    Daughter    -    Female    15    1886    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Kate D       Ratcliffe    Daughter    -    Female    14    1887    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Warren P    Ratcliffe    Son    -       Male    12    1889    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Lillian    Ratcliffe    Daughter    -    Female    8    1893    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Ada C       Harriot    Boarder    Single    Female    28    1873    Help & Companion    Ashtead, Surrey, England    
Bessie M    Fright       Visitor    Single    Female    28    1873    Living On Own Means    Canada


1911 Pebsham Farmer Bexhill, Bexhill, Sussex, England
Henry Pye       Ratcliff    Head       Married    Male    Farmer       58    1853    Sussex Hartfield    
Kate          Ratcliff    Wife       Married    Female    -       57    1854    London Chelser    
Margaret       Hodges       Daughter    Married    Female    -       25    1886    Sussex Ninfield    
Margarita Pembuton    Hodges       Granddaughter    -       Female    -       0    1911    Surrey Croydon    
Kate Dorohty       Ratcliff    Daughter    Single       Female    -       24    1887    Sussex Ninfield    
Warren Pye       Ratcliff    Son       Single       Male    Assistant Farmer 22    1889    Sussex Ninfield    
Warren Pye       Ratcliff    Daughter    Single       Female    -       18    1893    Sussex Ninfield    
Alice          Blackman    Servant    Single       Female    General Servant 20    1891    Sussex Westfield