Richard Davies, Aberystwyth

[iolanthe]

Does anyone on the list have a connection with Richard Davies, born in Aberystwyth, who appears on the 1881 census as a slateman, unmarried, aged 20+ (b around 1859ish - can't read the age exactly), as brother-in-law to Thomas Jenkins (my  G Grandfather) and his wife, Ellen (nee Davies).

I've been searching for a couple of years for information further back than Ellen or for any other siblings.  I know the names of her parents  -  John Davies, hawker, and his wife Dorothy (formerly Jones) as I have a copy of Ellen's birth certificate in 1852.  (I posted an earlier message entitled "John Davies - hawker" but I've had no luck tracing the family on other censuses.  I don't know when they were born, where they were married or died, other than the information I gleaned from Ellen's birth and marriage certificates.

If you can help, or think of avenues I haven't tried, I'd be very grateful.

Iolanthe

[osprey]

How about this group in  1871?

Main Rd, Llanon. Llansanffraid RG10/5558 folio 28 pg 7
Mary Evans head widow 70 keeping lodging house
Mary Anne Hughes unm lodger 70 b. London
John Davies lodger widower 52 earthenware dealer b. Aberystwyth
James Rowland lodger wdiower 47 eartherware dealer b. Flint
Richard Davies lodger 13 b. Aberystwyth
Evan Davies lodger 7 b. Aberystwyth

I'll see if I can find them earlier

[osprey]

I forgot there's chunks of Aberystwyth & area missing from the 1861
http://www.findmypast.com/resources/census/missingpieces.jsp
Should have remembered as it affects my great-greats in Llanbadarn Fawr
 

How about this for a possible marriage
John Davies sept qtr 1850 Bangor vol 27 pg 372 with a Dorothy Jones on the same page

possible death
Dorothy Davies sept qtr 1862 Aberystwyth vol 11b pg 53
this relies on John not being accurate with his sons' ages in 1871, if that's the correct group.

Is there an address given on Ellen's birth certificate?
Any clues from the witnesses on her marriage certificate?

[iolanthe]

Hi Osprey

Thanks for your reply.

I already have a copy of that marriage certificate in 1850 of a Dorothy Jones and John Davies from Bangor and I've always thought it unlikely, as he is shown as a boatman, but who knows?  Why would he change from a boatman and move to Aberystwyth although Dorothy's father (on the certificate) is shown as a potter, which may be a reason for John to become an earthenware dealer to move away and sell the wares.  Perhaps this is a missing link I ignored!

Ellen's birth certificate gives her date of birth as 1st May 1852, born Moor Street in Aberystwyth with her father given as a hawker, which is also what he is shown as on her marriage certificate 8th November 1870.  Would he not have given his occupation as "Earthenware dealer" rather than "Hawker", which sounds much posher!!

I had also found the reference you mentioned with the  1871 census.  I've followed the same logic as you and phoned up the Registrar in Aberystwyth a couple of days ago to see if she can identify a death of a Dorothy Davies in Aberystwyth and  I'm still waiting for a reply. 

I gave her 3 possible options to check: 
1854  Dec quarter  (no age given)
1862  Sep quarter  (no age given)
1878  Dec quarter  (age given 68)

If the 1862 one looks likely, it may confirm the 1871 census entry, or not!  She could have died in childbirth if Evan Davies is her son.  I've found similar results in my Merionethshire ancestors, educated guesswork later proven to be fact!

I can't lay my hands on my main Cardiganshire file at this moment to check the witnesses on Ellen's marriage certificate, but I don't remember that they had any obvious significance.

Thank you for you help, anyway.  I didn't realise there were 1861 missing bits in Aber.

[osprey]

given the children's names, could this be Richard in 1891?

4 Llangawsa, Aberystwyth
Richard Davies head mar 33 general labourer
Sarah wife 35 b. Llanrhystud
Margaret E dau 9
Dorothie dau 7
John R son 5
Thomas son 1
all born Aberystwyth except where stated

this birth cert would give mother's maiden name
Dorothy Davies dec qtr 1883 Aberystwyth vol 11b pg 52

possible marriages
Richard Davies june qtr 1881 Aberystwyth vol 11b pg 74 with Sarah Lloyd on the same page
or
Richard Davies sept qtr 1881 Aberystwyth vol 11b pg 59 with Sarah Davies and Sarah Jane higgins on the same page

Also spotted in 1881
16,17,18 Upper Mwldan, Cardigan RG11/5427 folio 75 pg 26
John Davies 68
Evan son 16
both born Cardiganshire, both hawkers, I think, the less than helpful enumerator has written coster over the occupations, but it could say hawker.

There's another possible death
Dorothy Davies march qtr 1863 Cardigan vol 11b pg 4 which would fit a bit better with Evan's age.

our posts crossed

that marriage does sound unlikely in that case. I've seen a John Davies as a potter somewhere - I'll look again.
He might have said earthenware dealer but whoever recorded it wrote down hawker, though people did tend to exaggerate jobs on certificates rather than the other way around.

[osprey]

don't know what to think now! Perhaps potting and dealing was more attractive than being a boatman? John's age is not consistent though, and it's a common name, so...

1851 Tign(?), Upper Gwnnws HO107/2487 folio 68 pg 11
John Davies lodger 23(?) potter b. Aberystwyth
second number very unclear

Trefechan, Llanbadarn Fawr HO107/2485 folio 319 pg 19
Dorothy Davies head widow 25 potter
John son 5
Phillip son 2
all born Aberystwyth

The only other  possible marriage of a Dorothy Jones to a Davies between 1841 and 1851 on Freebmd is to an Owen Davies dec qtr 1845 Festiniog vol 27 pg 301