2 Brickwalls

[annie10]

Hi, I have only been doing family history since the beginning of this year and was doing alright until I got to these people. Catherine Wishart emigrated to Australia from Scotland in 1855 when she was 18, she arrived on the ship Storm Cloud but I can't find any more on her until she married Samuel Upton in Campbell Town, Tasmania in 1856,
 she died in 1911 at Upper Liffey, Tasmania. Samuel is not on any convict list, nor is he on any immigrants list. The Tasmanian Archives have done a search on him and turned up nothing on him and we think he may have been an unnamed immigrant. He died in 1901 at Liffey Tasmania. They lived in Campbell Town and Cress/ Longford area of Tasmania and had 9 children. Samuel, Elizabeth, Robert, Mary Jane, James Walter, Catherine, Alfred, George Henry and John William. Everyone we know is stumped so we thought maybe someone had a new slant.  Merry Chrismas everyone, have a safe one.                

[Annette7]

Have you not got copy of the marriage certificate?   If not, I think you really need to get that.   I don't know what information is on Australian certificates but it must surely list their fathers at least.   There are only a handful of possible Catherine Wisharts on the Scottish census and knowing her fathers name might indicate which is the correct one.

Again, various possible Samuel Uptons in England.   How old was he when he died i.e. roughly when born?

Annette

[annie10]

Hello Annette, Thank you for replying. No there were no parents on the marriage certificate, no mention of any parents or place on death certificate and they were both minors when they  married so would have had to have been born around 1837. Catherine was supposed to be 18 when she emigrated but could have lied about it to get to Australia. Samuel was 66 when he died, that and the fact they were minors is how I got the 1837 birth date and I have gone 2yrs either way. Jack Wishart had a couple of possibilities but I don't know how to find out which one and Samuel , well I have no idea. M

[dee melody]

Hi.  Had a look on Scotland's people for Catherine's birth.  There are 2 listed for 1834 and 2 for 1838.  Nothing under that name for 1836 or 1836.

here are the 1838 births

Catherine Wishart b. 14/10/1838
Father: James Wishart:  Mother: Jean Walker
Area: Clackmannan

Catherine Wishart b. 28/10/1838
Father: Peter Wishart:  Mother:  Catherine Hay
Area: Glasgow.

I don't know if this is of any help to you.

regards
Dee

[dee melody]

Annie, do you have access to any old Tasmanian Census Returns?  If so, Catherine may have listed her birth place on that. I'm not familiar with the availability of such info in Australia. 
The ship the 'Storm Cloud' was running between Glasgow/Tasmania and Glasgow/ NewZealand.
Dee   

[annie10]

Hi Dee, They don't seem to be on any record until their marriage in 1856, a year after Catherine arrived.

[dee melody]

What a shame.  I have found the 1857 Tasmanian Census returns, but unfortunately they are not complete and the Upton's do not appear on it.  I see they had a child (daughter) in 1857 Mary Jane?  She must have died because they named a later daughter the same name (1865).  I'm trying to think what other document might have details.  Did Samuel leave a Will when he died that might mention his country of Origin?
Dee

[dee melody]

Annie, I have been checking some of the above names on the 1841, 1851 & 1861 Scottish Census.  You can exclude the following from your search:
James Wishart/Catherine Cumin
Peter Wishart/Catherine Hay.
These are all accounted for as complete families up to & including 1861.

There seems to be some anomaly with James Wishart/Jean Walker - Clackmannan.  I think James died after the 1841 Census and I have found what looks like 2 families living together. (No men in the house)  They do not appear on the 1851 census. I will keep checking this lot out to make sure I haven't got it wrong.

Regards
Dee

[Annette7]

Hi Annie

I too checked all Catherine Wishart's on IGI, Scotlands People and the Census and have spent the past 2 days of Christmas away with family.   Before I left I'd checked all 6 of the possibilities I found and slowly eliminated them.   This left only 1 possibility and that is the first one which dee melody mentioned i.e.  Catherine, b.11/9/1838, bp.14/10/1838 Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire dau. of James Wishart and Jean Walker.   She was in fact a twin of Elizabeth.

The IGI shows that James Wishart and Jean (or Jane) Walker married 8/11/1828 at Logie, Perth.   Their children were:

James bp.7/6/1829 Clackmannan, son of James Wishart and Jean Walker (he died)
Janet (as Whishart) bp.28/5/1831 Clackmannan, dau. of James and Jean Walker 
Anne b.4/8/1833, bp.25/8/1833, dau. of James Wishart and Jane Walker.
David b.24/8/1835, bp.6/9/1835,                ditto
John b.22/9/1837, bp.18/10/1837,              ditto             (he must have died also)
Catherine b.11/9/1838, bp.14/10/1838 Clackmannan, dau. James Wishart/Jane Walker
Elizabeth  b.11/9/1838, bp.14/10/1838                     ditto
James b.13/9/1840, bp.4/10/1840                             ditto

1841 Census - Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire - indexed as Wickert/Wickart

James      33               Not born in County
Jane        35                        ditto
Janet       10               Born in County
Anne         8                      ditto
David        5                      ditto
Catherine 3                       ditto
Betsy        3                       ditto
James     8 mos.                 ditto

1851 Census - Alloa, Clackmannanshire

James Wishart     42     Ag. Labourer   b. Tulliallan, Perthshire
Jane Wishart        50                            b. Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Catheran Wishart  12                           b. Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire
Elizabeth Wishart   12                                  ditto
James Wishart        10                                  ditto

1861 - Tillicoultry,  Clackmannanshire

Jane Wishart   Head  Widow  58     Wool winder      b. Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Janet Wishart   Dau.    Unm.   28     Finisher of Woolshawls  b. Clackmannan Parish
James Wishart  Son     Unm.   20     Woollen Weaver             b.        ditto
Jane Wishart   g/dau.              9       Scholar                          b. Alloa
David Wishart  g/son               7       Scholar                          b. Tillicoultry
Ann Wishart     g/dau              2                                             b.   ditto
Janet Kemp       -          Unm.   59     Woollen Winder             b. (?), Stirlingshire     

This latest census shows Jane was widowed between 1851 and 1861 - cannot find on SP between 1855 and 1861 so presume he must have died 1851-1854.

Suspect that all of Jane's grandchildren were probably children of her dau. Janet although can only say for certain that the youngest Ann was (on IGI).

So, Catherine Wishart was a twin (cannot find her twin in 1861 nor any likely marriage so wonder if maybe Elizabeth Wishart also went to Tasmania ??)  If Catherine went to Tasmania in 1855 looks like it was shortly after her father died.

Her mother Jane/Jean died 10/5/1874 aged 72 at 24 Stirling Street, Tillicoultry.   The informant was her son but can't tell from initial whether David or James - he was a Carter living in Airdrie.   Her parents are shown as David Walker, ploughman (deceased) and Janet Walker M. S. Syme (deceased).

Both these parents births appear on the IGI.

Will now try to see if I can find a possible Samuel Upton though feel this is likely to be far more difficult.   

Annette