James Allison - finding him

[kwr]

Born in Scotland I have him married in England in 1856 to an Irish girl and can trace him in every English census from 1861 onwards and to his death. Nowhere can I find his county of birth nor do I know his siblings or his mother's name. On the English marriage certificate his father is named as James also.

I intend to search Scotlandspeople for the 1851 and 1841 censuses and maybe marriages and births but I'd like some suggestions to try to narrow down the searches.

It has occurred to me that it might be useful if I listed the names of his children and his grandchildren because I understand there are some rough rules of thumb re. naming children.

His wife is Harriet. His children are James b. 1856, Harriet Ann b. 1860, and William b. 1862. Of these children ....
James disappears from 1871 on with no record of marriage or death so he may have emigrated.

Harriet Ann marries late, in England in 1895 and had one child Jessie.

William marries a Scottish girl Jane, in Liverpool and their children are:

James
William
Elizabeth Hilda
Agnes Laura
Stanley

Jane's own siblings also have William, Elizabeth and Agnes as names.

I know that on the scotlandspeople site one can now search on two names and I am wondering whether to ask for James and (for example) Hilda or Ann in an attempt to cut down the list of possible candidates.

Perhaps I should add that he is a stoker all his life so he may have been at sea in both 1841 and 1851 - which makes life a bit more complicated!

Any experience or reflections on the above would be most welcome.

Ken

[MonicaL]

Hi Ken

Good to see that you have now found the marriage cert. for James and Harriet. One more step forward with confirmation of James's father's name. Just one question, did the 1856 marriage cert provide an occupation for James's father. That might help you when trying to narrow down possibilities for his family in Scotland in the earlier censuses.

The only possibility I am seeing so far is a father and son (b. 1822), both called James and both merchant seamen in 1841 (mother Maryann) living in South Leith, Midlothian.

Regards.

Monica 

[kwr]

Monica,

Very good of you to go to so much trouble to help. As to James Allison Senior - on the marriage certificate his occupation was given as farmer. The marriage was in 1854 in Liverpool so things may have changed back in Scotland..... The witnesses don't seem to be helpful though it may be the Scottish connection is still there because one is a Donald Campbell (who signs) though the other is a Mary Parker. I have yet to trace them in the 1851 census with any certainty.

My mother did say many years ago that the Allisons were from the western side of Scotland. The son of James who is my descendant was first a baker then an electrician then a fireman like his father. One picture of him survives and his dress is vaguely maritime. In turn his son, my grandfather went to sea at an early age - though in Liverpool that is not a surprise.

None of the above is of course at all conclusive. I am still wondering as I mentioned in my first query whether to link names like Ann and James. The fact that you found a Mary Ann may be a slight indicator? - I yhink I'm just being optimistic!

Thanks again.

Ken

[sancti]

What age was he when he married in 1854

[MonicaL]

Hi Sancti

This is the link to Ken's previous post last year for background www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,238136.msg1291189.html#msg1291189

From the census entries in England for James, he would look to have been born c. mid 1820s.

Regards.

Monica

[sancti]

Does the marriage cert. say Bachelor and Spinster?

[AMBLY]

Hi  Ken

As far as naming patterns go, the key -  if it existed  (if they adhered to pattern) would be with Harriet and James' children  and you would need to be as certain as you can be that you have all the names of any children born to them - including any who may have died in infancy:
First son after James' father   - James (correct).
First daughter after Harriet's  mother - what was her mother's name?
Second son after Harriet's father - what was her father's name?

Do you know if there were any children born to James and Harriet who died (especially in that gap - 1856 to 1860)?

Nothing is hard and fast, but my take is that the Scottish naming pattern is so named and such a useful tool, because it was heavily and widely used. James and Harriet's children would not expect to be traditional pattern-key in this search  in that, their children would then be named after James and Harriet, and after their spouse's parents.  Often, Scottish families who moved away from Scotland or where they marry a non-Scot, one sees a marked change in the way children are named, perhaps not the first generation  (eg: James & Harriet) but in the next (eg their children) - as if they were released from bounds of tradition' and decided on a partial mix of tradition,and also introduced their "own" preferrred names.  It is also so with occupations - your James was a Stoker all his life in Lancashire; however, prior to that he may have been quite differently occupied if he was in Scotland or stayed in Scotland - ie:  his English occupation may well be  a result of his "change of life" from Scotland to England.

Having nothing else to go on,  looking for a James ALLISON born abt 1824, poss West side of Scotland, to a father named James who was a Farmer (for farmer also consider  "Ag Lab" - marriage records often 'inflated' the occupation Ag Lab to Farmer!!)

Looking on the IGI:
There is one possibility on West of Scotland which may be worth running with, if nothing else than to eliminate:

James ALLISON son of 20 Feb 1823 - Inchinnan Renfrewshire
Parents:  James ALLISON and Jean REID

IGI: James ALLISON and Jean REID married 1817 Inchinnan

All  Issue to same named parents - all Inchinnan
John 1818/1819
Jean 1820
James 1823
Matthew 1824
Agnes 1826

The fact this family stops here - either IGI records are incomplete (I'm not sure what coverage IGI has for Renfrew?), the family moved out of Renfrew, or one of the parents died (I would suspect the latter?)

Running  with that family.......

1841: Inchinnan, Renfrewshire
Ref: Parish 566, ED 2, Folio 2, pg 6
Address: Lookinsford
James ALLISON 60 Ag Lab, b RNF (abt 1781)
John ALLISON 22, AG Lab, b RNF (abt 1819)
Jean ALLISON 20, Ag Lab. b RNF (abt 1820)
Ann ALLISON 12, b RNF (abt 1829)
Walter ALLISON 10, b RNF (abt 1831)

Cannot find IGI births for Ann and Walter - the 1841, unfortunately doesn't indicate if they are james children (from a 2nd marriage??) or perhaps other relatives.

Son James (per IGI) may be here:
1841: Inchinnan, Renfrewshire
Ref: Parish: 566, ED 3, Folio 3, pg 2
Address: Oldmains Stable Loft
James ALLISON 15, Ag Lab - b RNF
He seems to be  living with 2 other young male Ag Labs in the Loft - but the previous Household, is the ALGIE farm - probably their employer (a son of the ALGIE family is John, age 15)

In 1851:
Cannot locate James Snr, Jean (may have married) or Walter.
Anne may be the IGI Anne ALLISON b abt 1828, married in Jan 1846 Inchinnan John WALLACE (he died Jan 1872) (Where is she 1851, 1861)

James Jnr (as presumed per IGI birth)   looks like he is still with the ALGIE's:-
1851: Paisely Abbey, Renfrewshire
Ref: Parish 573, ED 1A, pg 5
Address: North Cardon Old
Servant: James ALLISON 26, farm labourer, b Inchinnan
On Farm of John ALGIE age 29, who was also born Inchinnan.

John may be here (interesting there are CAMPBELL's in the house)
1851: 54 Water Street, Barony Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish: 622, ED 9, pg 18
Head: Elizabeth DONALDSON 56, Seller of Milk,  b Paisley RNF
Son: Archibald DONALDSON 31, Grain Lab, b Glasgow LNK
Dau: Elizabeth DONALDSON 18, Servant, b Glasgow LNK
SisterInLaw: Alex'r CAMPBELL  35, b Campbelton ARG
Grandau: Elizabeth CAMPBELL 9, b Glasgow LNK
Grandson: Alexander CAMPBELL 8, b Glasgow LNK
Grandau: Margaret CAMPEBLL 6, b Glasgow LNK
Visitor: George PATERSON 58, Engineer, b Galston AYR
Visitor: John ALLISON 29, Moulder, b Inchinnan RNF

Can't find this James ALLISON jnr  in the 1861?
Could he be yours! Perhaps chasing up all these Inchinnan ones, to see where they all end up.....

Cheers
AMBLY

[kwr]

I am amazed (again) at how kind and prompt the helpers here have been when I, short of ideas and possible things to do next, ask for contributions.

Monica thank you for letting the others know - I hadn't realised this was possible until I followed your link to our previous contact! Shows how limited my thought processes are.

Sancti you'll know from Monica that the age of James Allison was given as 30 on the marriage certificate. They were entered as Spinster and Bachelor though of course one never knows.

Ambly,

Thank you for a thought provoking discussion re. naming patterns - and the possible pitfalls. The information you have already uncovered re. the Inchinnan possibility is also something I'll have to look at very hard. If it were only true..... but I shall look and think. Meantime I have begun to follow the suggestion that there may have been other children born 1854-60. According to Freebmd there are at least nine possibilities.

So I'll explore, eliminate and eventually get back. Meantime thanks once again for your support.

Ken

[kwr]

Sorry,

A supplementary note - I was interrupted by a grandson.

I'm sure the Scottish connection was valued even 25-30 years later because my own grandfather (also named James) named all but one of his male children as Douglas, Gordon Leslie, Kenneth and James. None of those names came from his wife's side. His two daughters were my own mother Jean and Betty. I know this is not proof of anything really but it is an indication.

I also have two pictures of one of my grandfather's brothers, killed in WW1, wearing a kilt and an outfit which I am assured by a knowledgeable family historian on military matters indicates that he joined the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

Now you know as much as I do about my Scottish ancestry!

Ken