Author Topic: Joseph Sagittary Strange  (Read 2601 times)

Offline agcstoat

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Joseph Sagittary Strange
« on: Tuesday 22 January 08 08:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I have been collating my part of the Strange family tree for some time, and I am trying to find out if there is any significance to my great-great-great grandfather's middle name - it may have been spelled as above, or possibly 'Sagittrey' or 'Sagittery'.

This branch of the family lived in Hazelbury Bryan (but originated from Stoke Wake), and Joseph S. was born there (I believe at Droop Farm) in 1828.

Joseph S. also had a younger brother whose middle name was Solomon, but I can't determine whether these were typically Biblical names or whether they had a deeper meaning.  Certainly their father (also Joseph) was a church warden and yeoman, so that may have a bearing.

I gather that there were several Sagittarys who were deacons for Dorset in the 18th century, so also wonder whether this might be relevant.

I'd appreciate any pointers (or even facts!) that the other members can offer.

Thanks,
Alan Charlton
Charlton (N. London)
Strange (Dorset & Hants)
Turnbull (Durham)
Diaper (Hants)

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Offline nanny jan

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 22 January 08 09:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alan,

Have you had a look for the family on www.dorset-opc.com?  A variety of data; baptisms, marriages, burials, census, trade directories etc.  You might find a clue there.


Nanny Jan

Just had a quick look at www.dorset-opc.com and there is the burial of a William Sagittary Davis, aged 24 of Vicarage House, Cerne Abbas, on 19 Dec 1821 at Cerne Abbas. (Bishop's Transcript)
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



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Offline CatOne

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 22 January 08 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome to rootschat!

Are you in touch with Mike Strange from Biggleswade, I came upon his site when googling the Sagittary name, he may be able to help if you haven't been in touch before.

Also "Sagittary" seems to mean Centaur/Saggitarius (Wikipedia, online dictionaries) :-\
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex
Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire
Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire
Shaw, Marland - Lancashire
Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland
Richards - Neath Swansea
Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs
Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire
Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire
Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov

Offline agcstoat

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 22 January 08 09:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome to rootschat!

Are you in touch with Mike Strange from Biggleswade, I came upon his site when googling the Sagittary name, he may be able to help if you haven't been in touch before.

Also "Sagittary" seems to mean Centaur/Saggitarius (Wikipedia, online dictionaries) :-\

Thanks for that.  Yes, I have been in touch with Mike Strange, and have made contact with a second or third?) cousin through his web site.

Regards,
Alan
Charlton (N. London)
Strange (Dorset & Hants)
Turnbull (Durham)
Diaper (Hants)

Offline mullinerweymann

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 17 March 18 10:06 GMT (UK) »
As a descendant of Joseph Sagittary (or Sagittery) Strange (my g/grandfather, b. Dorset 1828), I respectfully submit a long-winded exploration of his unusual middle name:
 
The earliest record of the term ’Sagittary’ appears in Shakespeare’s Othello, where the name is much debated by scholars but arguably refers to a street in Venice known as the vicus Sagittarius  where arrows were made, and which was associated with the Venetian fleet. Shakespeare also quotes ‘The dreadful Sagittary’ in Troilus and Cressida, with apparent reference to storms at sea from November to December under the zodiacal constellation of the Archer. (ref. Noemi Magri: ‘Othello’s house on the Sagittary’ in De Vere Society Newsletter, February 2010).
The scholarly conclusion is that Shakespeare‘s ‘Sagittary’ was an English rendering of the Latin Sagittarius, the English version also being used by Sir Isaac Newton in his ’Chronology’ (1727).

Coming now to personal names*, the earliest record I have is of one Jahannis or Jahans Sagittary, father of two daughters born in Stockholm, Sweden, 1678 and 1680. The surname is clearly English, possibly adopted by a marine navigator familiar with the stars and constellations. 
Back in England:
1713: Frances, d. of  Daniel Sagittary & Ann, chr. Winterbourne Steepleton, Dorset.
1722: John Sagittary m. Repentance Burge, Marnhull, Dorset. (John Sagittary, b. 1697, buried St Mary le Strand Middx. 1777).
1736: Frances Sagittary (1713, above) m. William Champ, Winterbourne Steepleton.
1737: William Daniel, s. of  William Champ & Frances, chr. Whitchurch Canonicorum, Dorset.
1767: Elizabeth, d. of William Champ Jr & Ann, chr. Winterbourne Steepleton.
1769: Sagittary, s. of William Champ Jr & Ann, chr. Winterbourne Steepleton. (Sagittary Champ buried Milton Abbas, Dorset 1830, age 60; no marriage record. 1836: son? Sagittary Champ m. Jannet Taylor, Southwark).
1774: Joseph Sagittary Champ, s. of William Daniel Champ & Margaret (née Paul), b. Whitchurch Canonicorum (chr. 1777).
1797: Elizabeth Champ (1767, above), m. John Davis, Milton Abbas.
1797: William Sagittary Davis, s. of John Davis & Elizabeth, chr. Dewlish, Dorset.
1826: Sagittary Biles, s. of Charles Biles & Anne, chr. Milborne St Andrew. Dorset.
1828: Robert Biles, s. of John Biles & Elizabeth, m. Anne Strange, Milborne St Andrew. (Ann, sister of Joseph Strange?). 
1828: Joseph (Sagittery) Strange, s. of Joseph Strange & Mary (née Drake), chr. Hazelbury Bryan, Dorset, 17 Oct.
*All family sources: familysearch.org and opcdorset.org

In summary, the possibly unique ‘Sagittary’ surname became a forename as it passed through the Dorset familes of Sagittary, Champ, Davis, Biles and Strange. For my ancestor Joseph Strange the additional name ‘Sagittery’ (as spelt in his Probate record) was apparently an afterthought, given some time after his christening in 1828.

I would happy to share information or compare notes on the paternal ancestors of Joseph Sagittery Strange; please PM if you’re interested.

Mike North

Online avm228

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 17 March 18 10:33 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat, Mike  :)

How fascinating - I had never heard of this name before.

A search on the National Archives catalogue throws up some early instances that you haven’t already listed, which may be of interest:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Sagittary
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Online avm228

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 17 March 18 11:03 GMT (UK) »
More here on the very early Sagittary family of Blandford Forum, apparently starting with Frederick Sagittary who was a wealthy and well-connected refugee from Germany’s Thirty Years War in the early 17th century:

http://www.dorsetlife.co.uk/2016/02/stories-from-an-old-house/
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline mullinerweymann

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 17 March 18 12:11 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks avm228 - that's brilliant! Can't wait to work your info into the story...
Kind regards,
Mike

Online avm228

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Re: Joseph Sagittary Strange
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 17 March 18 12:14 GMT (UK) »
You’re welcome :)

It looks as though the court of Frederick “the Winter King” was overthrown and went into exile in the early 1620s, so that may give an indication of when refugees from his circle might have arrived in England:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_V_of_the_Palatinate
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)