is this the end

[hiraeth]

According to my copy of "Llandegla Then & Now", published by the Llandegla Millenium Action Group,  because Llandegla was at the crossroads of several cattle droving routes there were once SIXTEEN pubs in the village.  An amazing thought when you consider the size of it

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.060271&lon=-3.198176&z=15.4&r=0&src=msl

The book says
"From the time that the Romans left until the introduction of mail coaches, the drovers were the only regular long-distance travellers.  Roads were generally atrocious until the building of the turnpikes in the 18th century.  Because of the danger of robbery, or worse, travellers often joined a drove in order to travel safely...The drovers had to take care, they could not afford to be cruel as they had to deliver their cattle in good condition.  Cattle panic easily, especially Welsh Blacks, so no drover could risk a sudden fright and scattering on cattle on a mountain pass.  To drive these beasts over difficult country and such long distances was a job for a man with great skill.  This care meant that they travelled only about ten miles each day.  The drovers were not only extremely tough to withstand these arduous journeys, but were also literate and entrusted with money, letters and so on that needed to be sent long distances.  However they were well paid........a system of licencing was introduced.  A man could only obtain a licence for droving if he was over thirty, married and a householder.  No hired servants were allowed.  This meant that the men who drove the cattle for a large dealer had to do so under contract.  Any man without a licence found droving was fined five pounds (a lot of money in those days) and served a term of imprisonment.  News also travelled via the drovers;  this was the quickest way to make known locally events both at home and abroad"

Droving increased at the beginning of the 19th century due to more food being needed in urban areas but the industrial revolution brought the end of droving about 1870 as the merchants opted to send the cattle to market by train. 

I've often wondered why there seemed to be an inordinate amount of blacksmiths and wheelwrights featured in the parish registers of this area.  My own 2g grandfather was a blacksmith in Bryneglwys who apparently gave up smithing in the 1870s and here is the answer 

Heather 

[slothbear]

hello
thank you for you replies,especially you heather 

i am truly amazed at what you have found for me and i will take great pleasure in following the leads you have given me.i have only just started using a computer so i am greatfull i really am.

Ive sent away for a marriage search for Robert Roberts in the north wales area 1750-1780
,so hopefully i may get
something back from it.

as for the ruthin record office,i am intrigued by what you found,so it does look like Robert Roberts was killed somehow,i will have to go to the record office or can i get the documents over internet?

Wat is MICHAELMAS? is it a place name by llandegla or dont you no,it is what you have written
for one of the inquest account after llandegla.
 
you have already been of great help,and i seem to have got back on the road again.i would of never of thought at looking at the information you have given me.
if you find anything else that would be of help to me please please please post it to me.

thanks again
                           Ian

[hiraeth]

Hi Ian

Here is the link to the Ruthin Record Office with information on how to access their records or request them to research for you:

http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en-gb/DNAP-6ZQKTQ

and here is a link to explain Michaelmas better than I can

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaelmas

The reference to Michaelmas 1788 is exactly how it is written on the record I quoted.  I see that in current times the date of Michaelmas Day is September 29 however if you scroll down you will see a reference to OLD Michaelmas Day as October 11th no year or era stated as to when there was a change. 

It certainly appears that Robert died in mysterious circumstances but perhaps the coroner found different    Or there is a possibility that the inquest was on someone else but it sure looks like a good lead.  At any rate you may get a few gems like an abode or reference to family members.  I don't know what it will tell you as I have never been lucky enough to find an inquest for one of mine

Heather

[wilcoxon]

 I don`t want to put the `mockers` on the inquest, but I found one on the same CD, and when  I rang to see if it was in the `Index to inquests` at Ruthin they told me that they don`t start till 1818. You can check of course, they are very good in replying to email questions.
There could be a mention in the Parish Register of how he died, quite often the early ones are full  of gory details

Just noticed that  Heather has already found him  Oh well 

[hiraeth]

Hi Wilcoxon

when  I rang to see if it was in the `Index to inquests` at Ruthin they told me that they don`t start till 1818.

What a shame, as there are no gory details in the burial note in the Llandegla register:)   

I was just about to post that I've spent a most enjoyable hour perusing the murder section of the Crime & Punishment page of the NLW http://www.llgc.org.uk/sesiwn_fawr/index_s.htm for the years 1730-1830 but there doesn't appear to be anything in there about Robert Roberts carpenter in 1788/89.  There are 854 other trials for murder though  

So if Robert was murdered it doesn't look like anyone stood trial for it unless a trial took place somewhere else??   Not sure how the system worked at that time i.e. were all trials held at the Quarter sessions or did any take place elsewhere??

H

[slothbear]

hello

when i went to llandegla church,i did not find the robert roberts grave stone i was looking for,as alot of the areas are grassed over,but wouldnt there be records of who was buried in each plot.how would i get hold of them records,and perhaps they would have dates of there deaths and ages etc?.

i havent had time to visit ruthin record offices yet,concerning the inquest,been busy at work.cant wait to go though.

thanks for everyones help again,may it continue,i feel as if im moving in right direction,even though i dont no anything yet..

[toni*]

i know our local cemetary has a book still on site, if you ask a groundsman nicely he might be able to help you, (i have and he was very helpful)

[slothbear]

thank you heather for making me feel welcome to roots chat.

i think i may need as much help as you can give me.
i havent got much to go on realy,only the transcript book for llandegla i have BMD from
1744-1812.
what i no from the booklet is-

robert roberts and mary roberts was the father of--
 david born 1787,who moved to llandderfel.
robert was a carpenter.
they also had jane 1776
                      godfrey 1778
                      robert 1780
                      thomas1782
                      jane1784   (another jane)??
                      david ( above 1787)
 also there is another robert and mary roberts,he was a wheelwright
they had a edward 1769
                  john 1771
                  robert 1773
could this be the same robert roberts the carpenter,as a few years earlyer he could of been a wheelwright?
there are 2 janes and 2 robert i think the first time they were named they may of died in childhood.?

for a burial record of the father robert,i have a few dates-
1788 ( it does say carpenter by the name) i think this could be the right date,so its oct 9th 1788
1795
1803
1810
1812
and mary his wife
1798 (it does say widow)
1804
1812
the marriage date u give me could be right,but it would of ment that they had 3 children before thay were marryed?
i think you are right looking in other villages so -
IF YOU COULD HELP ME ANY MORE,NOW THAT YOU HAVE MORE INFO ON ROBERT, I WOULD BE VERY HAPPY FOR YOU 2DO SO.
i think i just need a few dates,that are right and to do with robert and mary,then i can focus and get on my way again.
sorry for going on,i realy have enjoyed researching my tree,but i am struggling and not enjoying it as much.
thank you again
                                  ian
   

[slothbear]

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