Derby winning jockey of 1862 , on Caractacus

[sdgordon63]

James Parsons (b. 1846 Cranbourne, Dorset) brother of William (1850).
James was a groom at the racing stables of William Day in Woodyates, Dorset, a famous trainer of his era.

James rode the Derby winner Caractacus in 1862 and remains the youngest jockey to ride a Derby winner (16 years old).

He moved to Tyttenhanger, St. Albans when Caractacus became a stallion at stud there, and lived in St. Pancras in 1891 and 1901. I had thought my own great grandfather Parsons was the successful Derby winning jockey of 1862 but research has unfortunately proved it was the above James!

HOWEVER - this story is unsubstantiated because Internet shows JOHN Parsons rode the winning horse, not James - no John Parsons in the family then.

CAN ANYONE SHED LIGHT ON THIS PUZZLE - anyone know this man?

Stuart/

[Valda]

'An unsigned oil painting of the 1862 Epsom Derby winner, Caractacus, who was bred at Holywell Farm in Watford, will go under the hammer at auction on Saturday.

The image shows the horse with owner, Charles Snewing, trainer, Robert Smith and winning jockey, John Parsons, who was just 16 at the time. The only Derby winner ever to be bred in Watford, Caractacus was born in 1859 and is by Kingston out of Defenceless. When he won the race, his owner reportedly provided a feast for the poor people of the town.

Famed throughout the town, his legacy still exists today immortalised in the roads, Caractacus Cottage View and Caractacus Green. Unlike the subject of the picture, however, the artist's identity remains a mystery, but it is nevertheless hoped that the painting will exceed its estimate of £150 to £200 when it goes under the hammer. The painting came to light at a recent auction day at The Colosseum, Watford, organised by the BBC2 antiques programme Flog it.'

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.687691.0.local_history_surrounds_painting_up_for_auction.php

Dated 16th February 2006


1861 census Charles Snewing was certainly at Holywell Farm in Watford RG9 833 folio 104

Regards

Valda

[sdgordon63]

Thank you for substantiating the owner.
Now I need to locate information on the 'John Parsons' who rode Caractacus to victory and see if it really was my great uncle...

much obliged for your assistance!
Stuart/

[brianinit]

Am posting this for a second time - not sure if it worked first time.

My father, John Henry Parsons, told me that his grandfather, John Parsons was the youngest jockey ever to  win the Derby, riding a horse called Caractacus. 
My father was born in London in 1900 and his father, 27 at the time, was born in St Albans.  Could be a connection here?

brianinit

[Valda]

Welcome to Rootschat

This family?

1901 census RG13 209 folio 101
137 Blackstock Road Stoke Newington
John Parsons 27 Head Married Working cabinet maker St Albans Hertfordshire
Rose Parsons 22 Wife Married Hoxton London
John Parsons 8 months Son South Hornsey London

Births Sep 1900 
Parsons  John Henry     Edmonton  3a 380

What information does John Parsons senior give for his father on his marriage certificate? Does it agree with the information on the 1891 census?

1891 census RG12 119 folio 147
5 Pancras Street Pancras
James Parsons 44 Head Married Groom Dorsetshire
Sophia Parsons 39 Wife Married St Albans
John Parsons 17 Son Cabinet maker St Albans
Adelaide Parsons 15 Daughter St Albans
Elizabeth Parsons 13 Daughter St Albans
Violet Parsons 11 Daughter St Albans
Sophia Parsons 6 Daughter St James Street London

Regards

Valda

[brianinit]

Hi Valda

The 1901 Census info tallies.  My grandmother was Rose Parsons, nee Fruish.  They did live in Blackstock Road - more Finsbury Park than Stoke Newington, although Stoke Newington would have been the ecclesiastic parish.  My father's birth cert shows his father as being a Journeyman Cabinet Maker.

As far as the 1891 Census is concerned, the ages of both James and John Parsons make sense because if James was 16 in 1862, then he would have been 44 in 1891, and if John was 17 in 1891, he would have been 27 in 1901, which again tallies.

However, my father, who died in 1992, said that his grandfather,  who rode Caractacus to victory in the Derby, was John Parsons.
He never mentioned a James Parsons.

May I ask, what is your interest in this matter?  I was expecting to hear from s/gordon.

Regards
Brianinit

[Valda]

The marriage certificate will give you John senior's father's first name

Marriages Jun 1897 
Fruish  Rose Ellen    Islington  1b 423     
Parsons  John     Islington  1b 423

1881 census RG11 1432 folio 6
The Green Tyttenhanger St Albans
James Parsons 32 Head Married Groom (N D) Dorset
Elizabeth Parsons 29 Wife Married St Albans, Hertfordshire
Emma Parsons 11 Daughter Tyttenhanger, Hertfordshire
Anne Parsons 9 Daughter Tyttenhanger, Hertfordshire
John Parsons 6 Son Tyttenhanger, Hertfordshire
Adelaide Parsons 4  Daughter Tyttenhanger, Hertfordshire
Elizabeth Parsons 3 Daughter Tyttenhanger, Hertfordshire
Violet Parsons 2 Daughter London Colney, Hertfordshire

Marriages Jun 1868 
Gazeley  Elizabeth Sophia M    St Albans  3a 443   
Parsons  James     St Albans  3a 443

1871 census RG10 1379 folio 172
Tittenhanger Green Smallford St Albans Hertfordshire
James Parsons 24  Head Married Groom Cranborne Dorset
Sophia Parsons 20 Wife Married St Albans Hertfordshire
Emma Parsons 1 Daughter Tittenhanger Green Hertfordshire

1861 census RG9 1336 folio 50
Woodgates Inn Pentridge, Dorset
James Parsons  abt 1846  Groom Cranbourne, Dorset, Servant 

It might be better sending a personal message to Stuart since he has only made three posts the last being in February.

The purpose of Rootschat is for people to help others with their family history research. Such help is given altruistically and not necessarily by people who share any personal interest in the family line of interest.

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

1851 census HO107 1854 folio 149
Castle Street Cranborne Dorset
Thomas Parsons 39 Head Married Ag lab Cranborne Dorset
Ann Parsons 36 Wife Married Cranborne Dorset
Sarah Parsons 13 Daughter Cranborne Dorset
George Parsons 11 Son Cranborne Dorset 
Ellen Parsons 8 Daughter Cranborne Dorset
James Parsons 5 Son Cranborne Dorset
Sophia Parsons 3 Daughter Cranborne Dorset
William Parsons 9 months Son Cranborne Dorset
John Bailey 72 Father-in-law Widower Parish relief Cordwainer Cranborne Dorset 

THOMAS PARSONS
ANN BAILEY
Marriage:  11 MAR 1838   Cranborne, Dorset

Marriages Mar 1838   
Bailey  Ann    Wimborne &c.  8 201     
Parsons  Thomas     Wimborne  8 201

Births Dec 1845 
PARSONS  James    Wimborne  8 140


Regards

Valda

[sdgordon63]

Hello Brian, and Valda too.
Thanks for your input and enquiries.And apologies for my slow responses.
 I have tried to match up all the data you supplied to little avail unfortunately.
It does seem likely that your great grandfather is my ancestor James,
from Dorset, born 1846, looking at the census, if the age tally is to be relied upon. The James/John name discrepancy however is still a great concern to me and some how have to find a way to verify the links with better referances, im sure you agree.
Its a pity that you have no records in your family (bibles, other relatives?) who could provide you with tangible evidence of the winning race, in whatever shape or form that might be (cups, certificates, letters, photos)
SO that, ultimately we can only try to see if we connect as a family.