Derby winning jockey of 1862 , on Caractacus

[wells]

I am trying to find any information I can relating to Holywell Farm and hoped you could help.  The building itself has quite a history and it is believed that there were roman tunnels running under the well to St Albans.

Look forward to hearing from you

Wells

[joanne123]

Hi, Ive just started my family tree and also think I am related down the line to James Parsons who rode Caractacus to victory. I have traced back to him and his mother and father and have some but limited info about their parents.

James Parsons born in 1846 married to Sophie Elizabeth ( Milligan )  who had a daughter called Sophie ( Sophia ) Parsons born 18Th march 1885 St Pancras, she was the mother to my grandfather Frederick Albert Woodland, her husband George William ( Henry ) Woodland.

All of the info that you have mentioned agrees with what I have found so far and takes me back 7 generations. I have James Parsons parents as Ann Bailey born 1815 and Thomas Parsons born 27 Aug 1809. His parents as Mary and John Parsons. For Anne Bailey I only have information about John Bailey her father, no info can be traced so far about his wife.

May be a long shot but feel if this is all correct, we could have a link somewhere on the tree?

Would love to hear from you, thanks Joanne.

[sdgordon63]

Hello Joanne.
And welcome to this meeting of 'Caractacus' jockey ancestors.
Its been 2 years since I did any research on this, and your email triggered a last check on the internet to determine if James Parsons - who is both of our ancestors (and Brians, on here) is actually the Derby Winner of fame.
I have two pieces of evidence to support this theory now.
1)The Times newspaper lists the jockey as J.Parsons

2)This link - has the Jockey written down officially as James Parsons
http://www.epsomdowns.co.uk/pdf/roll_of_honour.pdf

3) Brians comment to me :  "As far as the James/John thing goes it is possible that, when he first joined the stables, there was already a James working there, so they called him John.  A similar thing happened to me when I first started work."  actually tallies with a fact I discovered from this link:

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TAN18870319.2.42&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-all

It says that the owner of the horse: Snewing's chief jockey was named James Goater, who turned down the offer to ride Caractacus on the Day.
So perhaps our James was named John at work...

The other bits of evidence all seem to point at James Parsons as the Derby winner, I think it would be less likely he wasnt, after all of this evidence.

As for our connection - yes - i see that your trace back to James' parents exactly tallies with what I have on my family tree list. So unfortunately i cannot add to your knowledge or you to mine on that count,  but we are related at least
James Parsons younger brother William (brn 1850) is the father of of my Grandmother: Edith Parsons, whos Son was Ronald Gordon - my father.
I think that makes us 3rd Cousins Once removed !
Id love to get the details of James Parsons children to add to my family tree - i only really have our own line which came down from his brother William.

Stuart/

[joanne123]

Hi Stuart,

Thanks for your last message. Very interesting. I'll try and explain who's who so far on my tree......


James Parsons-----------married--------------Sophie Elizabeth Milligan born 1852 Herts died 1904/05?
Their daughter is Sophie Parsons ( known as Sophia ) ( my great grandmother ) born 18/3/1885 St Pancras London died in 1946?-----------------she married (27/3/1910 ) George (sometimes Henry) William Woodland ( my great grandfather ) who was born 6/10/1982 St Giles South, Middlesex, he died 12/2/1950
They had a son called Frederick Albert Woodland ( my grandad ) born 12/6/1920 died 2/6/2000---------------------he married (26/12/1942 ) Violet Emily Sayers ( my grandmother ) who was born 13/9/1922 and died 23/9/1999.

I'm currently searching the Sayers side of the family. I have more info on the woodland/Parsons side at present.

Hope that made sense Joanne.
                                           
                                             
                                           
                                         

[ramptonlyles]

Perhaps I could just rather belatedly clarify one point. The jockey of Caractacus was indeed James rather than John Parsons as the records now have it. Victorians weren't especially keen on first names and I doubt if Day, Snewing and the other interested parties ever knew him other than by his surname. He was the Cranbourne-born stable lad who worked for William Day and when Day fell out - as he always did - with Mr Snewing he went so-to-speak with the horse. The Derby was his third and final win as a jockey. He advertised in "Bell's Life" for further rides but they didn't come. The various censuses show his subsequent career, marriages and numerous children. His death in London was briefly noted in "The Sporting Life" (20 May 1907) though I think his circumstances weren't as reduced as it suggests. As a curiosity in 1957 Captain Noel Newton who lived in Rutland and was a well-known racehorse owner and sometime trainer was then employing as a groom an 84 year old who was one of JP's sons. So the racing links continued to comparatively recently. Some confusion has arisen out of a contemporary jockey called George Parsons (d1897) who was unrelated but several years older. He was listed simply as "Parsons" in "The Racing Calendar" and some racing historians have mistakenly assumed they are the same jockey which would have made Caractacus's jockey to be well over sixteen.

[caro-dee]

To add an even more belated reply..... If any further 'proof' is needed to show that James Parsons (b. 1846 Cranbourne, Dorset) was the rider of Caractacus (winner of the 1862 Derby) then the censuses are the answer.  In 1861 James is listed as an apprentice/groom at the stables of William Day at Woodyates, Dorset, Day trained Caractacus as a two year old in 1861 before falling out with the horse's owner, Mr. Snewing who removed the horse from Woodyates, taking the horse's lad Parsons with him.  The 1871 census show James Parsons is a groom at Tyttenhanger Green, where Caractacus was standing at the Highfield stud as a stallion.