Author Topic: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886  (Read 25345 times)

Offline Sandersteadlion

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 03 June 09 08:07 BST (UK) »

Henry (Harry) Lowther aka Muttoneye was born in Whitechapel c1886.

It is said that he made his living playing a portable harmonium
Later known to have lived in or around the Elephant and Castle.
He appears to have been well known around the East End, he's even named in this poem 'The Bermondsey Boys' by Terrence Dinan.

"Remember the pubs, 'The Hole in the Wall',
'The Stingo' and 'Feathers', 'The Moonies' and all?
And old 'Muttoneye' wedged in the door of a bar,
with harmonium he'd carried, goodness knows from how far!"

If anyone knows or has heard stories about Muttoneye I'd love to hear them! 

Suey

Hello

I am trying to track a copy of the poem 'The Bermondsey Boys' by Terrence Dinan. Could you or anyone else on here post a copy as I believe that it has connections to my family that were brought up in Enid Street Bermondsey?

Thanks in anticipation!

Sanders

Offline suey

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 03 June 09 15:42 BST (UK) »

Hi Sanders  :)

This is all I have of the poem....you will see it says 'part of' so I assume it is only part of the poem, not been able to find any more despite google search  :(

Bermondsey Poem
Part of a Poem dedicated to Canon Arbuthnott by Terrence Dinan

Bermondsey, my Bermondsey, never out of my mind.
A place on the map, one can easily find.
Where are the houses, the folk that I knew?
The streets have all changed, and faces are new.
Remember Dockhead? And Father Murnane?
A priest to whom no one e'er turned to in vain.
A man for the people, in Church or at Court.
He lived for his parish, for his parish he fought.
The Catholic Procession, What an annual event!
Those streets lined with people, and many knees bent.
The hymns and the floats, the lorries and vans.
The noise and the hush, the prayers and the bands.
Those Orpington boys, their pillbox on head.
Their drum and fife band, the tears that were shed.
Those bright sturdy lads, orphans each and every one.
Touched the hearts of us all, our feelings were wrung.
The Downside and Fisher, Remember those clubs?
Kept lads off the streets, and out of the pubs.
The pursuit was sport, and all played the game.
Danny Lynch and some others, achieved national fame.
Father Stephen who sponsored and founded both clubs.
And Freddie Kirkpatrick, who reined in the subs.
The war changed it all, and many are gone.
The rest are old men, but Club spirit lives on.
Remember the cinemas, 'The Storks' and 'The Star'?
A sidedoor conveniently, left on the jar.
One crept up the stairs, and bided one's time.
Then mixed with the crowd. Who'd call it a crime?
Remember the pubs, 'The Hole in the Wall',
'The Stingo' and 'Feathers', 'The Moonies' and all?
And old 'Muttoneye' wedged in the door of a bar,
with harmonium he'd carried, goodness knows from how far!


Bermondsey, Bermondsey, we were all of us poor.
No violence, no muggings, we kept to the law.
The neighbours so close, and the people so kind.
Those faces and places, never fade from my mind.
The epitome of my passion for Bermondsey - my first and last home

Hope this helps
Suey

All census lookups are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Sussex - Knapp. Nailard. Potten. Coleman. Pomfrey. Carter. Picknell
Greenwich/Woolwich. - Clowting. Davis. Kitts. Ferguson. Lowther. Carvalho. Pressman. Redknap. Argent.
Hertfordshire - Sturgeon. Bird. Rule. Claxton. Taylor. Braggins

Offline Sandersteadlion

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 03 June 09 16:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Suey

That fills in the five missing lines of my version . ;D

I am also checking it out with the Priest at Dockhead, Holy Trinity Church. I will post what I find out.

Thanks for your kind help! ;)

Sanders

Offline LittleTel

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 01 September 10 13:01 BST (UK) »
Hi

I believe I might be the Great Nephew?? of Henry Lowther. me - my mother - William J Lowther - George Lowther, brother of Henry Lowther - Reuben Lowther Carvahlo. I dont have direct contact with any Lowthers (apart from my mother!), as my grandparents separated when I was 7-ish, and no one kept in touch with that side of the family.

I am researching the Lowther family, with my mother, on ancestry.co.uk and found Henry accidently on Rootschat.

If anyone has any information, or can point me in the right direction, regarding the Lowther family I would love to hear about it, and to confirm I have the correct Henry. I would be happy to share what I have found too.

Terry :)
On mothers side - Lowther, Carvahlo/Carvallo, Fitzgerald, Davis
On fathers side - Brown, Vaughan, Kimpton


Offline suey

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 01 September 10 18:55 BST (UK) »

Hi Terry, not sure how I find you on Ancestry, there seem to have been several Lowther trees added.

It's my husband who is related to the Lowthers but via George Lowther born 1850 he was the brother of Rueben.

Myself and a.n.other who is also a direct decendant of Rueben have extensive trees on GenesReunited - do you have a sub to that site?

Would like to exchange info, especially on the 'elusive William (Billy) Lowther bc1903

Suey

All census lookups are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Sussex - Knapp. Nailard. Potten. Coleman. Pomfrey. Carter. Picknell
Greenwich/Woolwich. - Clowting. Davis. Kitts. Ferguson. Lowther. Carvalho. Pressman. Redknap. Argent.
Hertfordshire - Sturgeon. Bird. Rule. Claxton. Taylor. Braggins

Offline LittleTel

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 01 September 10 19:40 BST (UK) »
Hi Suey,
thanks for replying so quickly. I've seen several Lowther trees also and must admit some may have gotten confused, what with all the strand of the Lowthers as there some possible errors.
Anyway, My mum and I both have trees but my 'user name' is terrybrown691 on ancestry. Not too sure myself how you can view the tree, but perhaps searching for one of the more unusal names and maybe my tree will pop up in the search results.
Unfortunately I haven't got membership on GenesReunited, I will look at uploading a Gedcom?? to put on GenesReunited so you can see who I have found. Should this also allow me to view yours?
William (Billy) Lowther bc1903 - not sure I've found him yet.
I will let you know if I manage to set up the tree on GenesReunited and I hope I dont bother you too much as I've only been doing research for a short while.

Thanks again for replying.
Terry
On mothers side - Lowther, Carvahlo/Carvallo, Fitzgerald, Davis
On fathers side - Brown, Vaughan, Kimpton

Offline suey

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 02 September 10 08:59 BST (UK) »

Hi Terry, will try to make contact via Ancestry - however once you have made 3 posts on Rootschat we can converse via the private message system on here - see the 'help' section at the top of the page and it will tell you how the system works.  The links are in blue on the left hand side of the help page  :)

Some of the Ancestry trees are very mis-leading, it only takes one mistake and everyone copies that mistake :-\ - my contact on GR and myself have been researching for some years and we think we've got the family pretty well sorted and can quote sources.

Suey
All census lookups are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Sussex - Knapp. Nailard. Potten. Coleman. Pomfrey. Carter. Picknell
Greenwich/Woolwich. - Clowting. Davis. Kitts. Ferguson. Lowther. Carvalho. Pressman. Redknap. Argent.
Hertfordshire - Sturgeon. Bird. Rule. Claxton. Taylor. Braggins

Offline LittleTel

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 02 September 10 10:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Suey
I must admit I have 'ignored' alot of trees on ancestry, there is one particular relative all researchers (for the trees I have looked at) have wrong info as there was never a death cert registered. I hope the details I have are correct, as you say, it can be very easy to add incorrect information which leads you down the wrong path.

I am aiming to Gedcom the Lowther tree I have and put it on GR. I will let you know when I manage to do it.

I will check the help section to see how to converse privately.
Hope to speak to you soon
Terry
On mothers side - Lowther, Carvahlo/Carvallo, Fitzgerald, Davis
On fathers side - Brown, Vaughan, Kimpton

Offline WADEAL

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Re: "MUTTONEYE" - Henry Lowther bc1886
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 12 March 11 00:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Sorry if I am a little late arriving on this one, but I have been tracing my roots and the 22 Creek Street address popped up here.

I noticed that in the 1891 Census there were two Lowther families living there. I think I may be related to the side headed by Mary Lowther.

If anyone has any details about this side of the family and how the two families at 22 Creek Street were related I'd be interested to hear.

Regards

WADEAL