Author Topic: Coach Maker & Coach Smith  (Read 22495 times)

Offline pipkim

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • View Profile
Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« on: Saturday 23 February 08 14:51 GMT (UK) »
I have just received a marriage certificate for my GGreat Grandfather, who I already knew was a Coach Maker. He married a lady who's father was a Coach Smith.

Can someone tell me the difference between the occupations if any?

Did he marry the bosses daughter!

Pipkim  :)
Cheshire - Shustoke, Atherstone, Nuneaton, Birmingham
Morgan - Liverpool, Burnley, Leicester, Birmingham (Morjeanstern - France, Liverpool, Burnley, Leicester)
Quinn/Quin - Ireland, Liverpool, Leicester, Birmingham
Bailey/Health/Andrews - Birmingham, (Stepney briefly), Smethwick, Bristol
Thomas/Keen - Oxfordshire, Westminster
Hooker - Odiham, Romsey, IofW, Basingstoke, London St Geo Sq

Census information is Crown Copyright, from National Archives

Offline genjen

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,427
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 23 February 08 15:32 GMT (UK) »
The only definition of coachsmith which I have seen gives it as a maker or mender of horse drawn carriages, so the same as a coach maker. It may be that the father of the bride thought it sounded a grander sort of title than coach maker but possibly quite simply that they used different terms to describe the same job.
A census entry might  tell you whether the father-in-law was also the boss.

Jen
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

ESS: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow Duck Spurden Harmony
SCT: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NRY: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
WES; Dickenson Jackson Ewbank Waller
STS: White
SRY: Knight
DUR: Smith Littlefair
HAM: Williams Grose Lush Venson

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,798
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 February 08 15:38 GMT (UK) »
A coachsmith was a smith who forged by hand or under a power hammer the iron work used in the building of railway or tramway coaches, carts etc.' repaired, cleaned and tempered coach springs etc.

A coach maker, aka body builder, body maker, built up by hand the wooden parts,e.g. framework, lining, floors, mouldings, of the bodies of coaches, carriages, railway carriages, tramcars etc.

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline pipkim

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 23 February 08 15:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jen,
Joseph Whitall the Coach Smith, was the same in the 1851 census but there was no reference to self-employment.

Hi Stan,
Your post makes sense, metal working alongside the wood. Maybe they worked for the same business or at least community.
Charles Hooker b.1839, who was my GGreat Grandfather and the Coach Maker, learnt his skills from his father (also Charles Hooker b.1811), who did have a business in Basingstoke in 1851 and employing 3 men. He then moved to St Georges Hanover Square, still as a Coachbody maker but I am unsure about whether he had a business still.

Thanks for the help.

Pipkim
Cheshire - Shustoke, Atherstone, Nuneaton, Birmingham
Morgan - Liverpool, Burnley, Leicester, Birmingham (Morjeanstern - France, Liverpool, Burnley, Leicester)
Quinn/Quin - Ireland, Liverpool, Leicester, Birmingham
Bailey/Health/Andrews - Birmingham, (Stepney briefly), Smethwick, Bristol
Thomas/Keen - Oxfordshire, Westminster
Hooker - Odiham, Romsey, IofW, Basingstoke, London St Geo Sq

Census information is Crown Copyright, from National Archives


Offline Jean McGurn

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,065
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 08 March 08 11:33 GMT (UK) »
Quote
A coachsmith was a smith who forged by hand or under a power hammer the iron work used in the building of railway or tramway coaches, carts etc.' repaired, cleaned and tempered coach springs etc.

A coach maker, aka body builder, body maker, built up by hand the wooden parts,e.g. framework, lining, floors, mouldings, of the bodies of coaches, carriages, railway carriages, tramcars etc.

Stan

My g.g.grandfather (1846-1903) was originally a wheelwright then coachbuilder, would he have done both jobs then? He lived all his life in Liverpool.

Jean
McGurn, Stables, Harris, Owens, Bellis, Stackhouse, Darwent, Co(o)mbe

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,798
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 08 March 08 13:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jean,
Coach Builder was a general term for workers engaged in building carriages or coaches

A Wheelwright was a man who made wheels and wheeled vehicles.

A wheelwright assembled the wooden parts of carts, vans etc. prepared by a sawyer, or by a woodworking machinist, and fitted these parts together to make complete vehicles, he often also did the work of a wheel builder, or wheel maker.

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Jean McGurn

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,065
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 08 March 08 19:29 GMT (UK) »
So they would in essence be two different trades?

 Wonder if he started out as an apprentice wheelwright but transferred to coach building instead.

Jean
McGurn, Stables, Harris, Owens, Bellis, Stackhouse, Darwent, Co(o)mbe

Offline charlotteCH

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Genealogy's worth chatting about.
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 09 March 08 09:21 GMT (UK) »
 Is there any apprenticeship register for those in 19th C who became coach related tradesmen? How does one chase this down?

I have several HUMPHRIES from Nunney nr Frome in Somerset who emigrated to Ontario as young adults and were coachbuilders, wheelwrights and so on and I wonder where they did their apprenticeships.

charlotte

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,798
    • View Profile
Re: Coach Maker & Coach Smith
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 09 March 08 09:26 GMT (UK) »
So they would in essence be two different trades?

 Wonder if he started out as an apprentice wheelwright but transferred to coach building instead.

Jean

As I understand it a wheelright could make both the wheels and the vehicles, and was a more skilled trade than just a wheel builder


Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk