Author Topic: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown  (Read 28627 times)

Offline Gsj

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 26 December 12 21:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi RufyGH,

My details work backwards somewhat in respect of Shepherd Jones Newtown Saunders. He was a great great great uncle of mine. He died in 1900 and left the property to his son Thomas. The records in family search suggest he was 86 and suggest a birth year of 1814.

The date of death for this Shepherd appears correct from the title deeds I have inspected and my great grandfather bought the property from Thomas who was unable to service the loan or unable to pay the inheritance taxes.

Correctly or incorrectly I assumed that the Shepherd on the Griffith Valuations of 1852 was one and the same. It also appears from my research that these Jones were Methodist.

The methodist church in Baltinglass was leased in 1833 and one of the two trustees was  a John Jones of Newtown Saunders. It is stated in the Baltinglass Chronicles (Author Paul Gorry) that by 1848, John Jones assigned the premsis to Shepherd Jones of Newtown Saunders. From this I have surmised that Shepherd is a son of John's. This is not as yet supported by any facts.

Finally, just to confuse matters, I have family anicdotal stories suggesting that my Shepherd also had a boot and army supply business. Not sure if this is of any relevance or confuses matters.

Good of you to respond and i look forward to your thoughts on the above.

Glen

Offline Charlie J

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 02 February 13 15:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi all. Along with GSJ, I have been doing some research on the woodside Joneses.
Today I was at the cemetery in Hacketstown, but I need to go back to see if I can get more info off the headstones. They are quite weathered but in parts readable.
One stone has the inscription saying
Erected by Robert Patton Jones to the memory of his father Shepard Jones Esq Woodside Hacketstown who departed this life on 27/2/1864 (The 6 is not clear)aged 77 years.
Shepard F Jones died 26/2/1876 aged 17
Robert P Jones died 12/6/1878 age 59
? A Jones ?0/8/1881 age 16
Headstone 2 says
Sacred to the memory of Sarah Jones ?-? Daughter to John Jones of Newtown Saunders, Co Wicklow who was born on the ?? 1825 (Not sure of the 2) and departed this life on the ?
The 3rd headstone is very hard to read but mentions John Jones and his wife Mary Disney Jones. I do have reference to their marriage in 1810. There are other names but for the moment unreadable. 
There is a 4th stone in a different part of the cemetery to a Francis Jones. He has never cropped up in my research before so don't know if he is related. There is also a son Francis mentioned.
Despite high infant mortality rates and lower life expectancies, not one of your direct ancestors died childless.

Offline Charlie J

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 07 February 13 11:30 GMT (UK) »
This is the grave of William Empson Jones in Clonmore, Co Carlow


This is the Grave of Shepard Jones and Robert Patton Jones in Hacketstown, Co Carlow


I am trying to find out more about a Dora Jones Born about 1842. She shows up as a relative of Mary Ellen Whyte nee Jones Daughter of Shepard Jones (D1900) of Baltinglass in the 1901 Census) This Shepard Jones wife who was Dorothea (D4/11/1900) From a death notice in the Kildare Observer. She died at the address of her Daughter and is buried in the family plot in Hacketstown. I couldn't find this plot. It would be nice to find if this Dora has appeared on any one elses radar. 
Despite high infant mortality rates and lower life expectancies, not one of your direct ancestors died childless.

Offline RufyGH

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 07 February 13 14:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi Charlie,

I posted the following reply to your post on the 3rd but it never got through, so posting it again...

Thank you very much for sharing the fruits of your labours in the long grass! Here's what I can add to the inscriptions;

Robert Patton Jones married Eliza Empson in 1852 so the Shepard F Jones sharing the grave with Robert's father could be their son (ba1859?)  This would fit a gap between children I know of from a handwritten family tree I inherited from my father but this Shepard doesn't appear on it? Not always completely accurate I know (there are other discrepancies on it.)  Only ordering the death certificate would solve the mystery I suppose, as his death is registered in Shillelagh in 1876. 

The other occupant of the grave is Ellen Anne Jones - both her Aug 1881 burial record and that of Robert P Jones are online via http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie  Her estimated birth year of 1864/5 could make her a daughter of Robert & Eliza but again she doesn't appear on the family tree but there is a baptism for a daughter named Martha in May 1865? (see FamilySearch.org for named parents.)  I couldn't find a reliable entry in the death indexes for her though that matched with an August burial?

I can't add anything to what you found on the other 2 headstones, but the name Disney did crop up in a message to me from GSJ and he definitely has land records linked to Newtown Saunders - so he may see this and reply too.

The Francis Jones may have been a contemporary/relation of Shepard Jones senior as that name appears above his in a list of Carlow voters in 1837 (see http:://www.igp-web/Carlow) and I found someone named Francis Jones listed as a cloth dealer there in Pigot's 1824 directory.

The only online parish records I could find for Hacketstown only go back as far as 1878 it appears - any ideas if earlier ones exist in Carlow archives?

I'm sure that there are definite links between all these Jones's but as ever with such a common surname it's so difficult to be sure unless you reconstruct all the families!

Do let me know if you find any more!

RE: Headstone pictures - thank you very much, these are all ancestors of mine, so lovely to see them.

I'll need to have a bit more of a think about the Dora Jones you found as the one I found was for 1873 (see earlier posts)

Thanks
Kayes & Hopkins (Wicklow), Jones & Empson (Carlow & Kilkenny), Riddell, Turnbull (Scotland)


Offline shanew147

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 07 February 13 14:54 GMT (UK) »
....
The only online parish records I could find for Hacketstown only go back as far as 1878 it appears - any ideas if earlier ones exist in Carlow archives?
....

The RCB Index of records only shows details of baptisms and burials for this parish back to 1877 and 1878 respectively. Marriages go back earlier to 1845 due to being included in civil records.


Shane
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Offline Charlie J

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 07 February 13 16:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rufygh
Firstly gsj is a brother of mine. We are working together on the tree. We have quite a bit on John and Mary Jones and at the moment think this John Jones and Shepard Jones are possibly brothers. This is unconfirmed at this point. Dates we have make them the same generation and I can confirm they have the same address.
The Joneses of Hacketstown do seem to have some link with Kilkenny as John and Mary were Married in Kilkenny city. Marys family moved from Bagenalstown to Kilkenny sometime before 1810.

If you like pictures then here is one of the 3 grave stones in Hacketstown.
From left to right its John & Mary Jones/ Sarah Jones/ Robert Patton Jones

Francis Jones grave can be seen in the top left corner of the photo. It is the same type of stone slab as the 3 in the foreground.
I do have 2 more pictures of Jones graves in Clonmore. They are more recent though.

I may have access to more information in the near future and I will keep you updated if I do.
Despite high infant mortality rates and lower life expectancies, not one of your direct ancestors died childless.

Offline RufyGH

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 10 February 13 16:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Charlie,

Thanks very much for the new photo - as the graves are all side by side with the same name, can we confidently assume a family connection do you think?

The Kilkenny link you found is very interesting as Robert Patton Jones's wife, Eliza(beth) Empson was the daughter of a Joseph Empson of Kilkenny and they married in what I assume is her parish church, St. Mary's, Kilkenny in 1852.  Joseph appears to have been a very significant landlord in Kilkenny according to Griffiths Valuations of the time and assuming there are not mutiple Joseph Empson's - it does appear to be a relatively uncommon name.

I've got some estate sale papers that I downloaded from FindMyPast Ireland that mention several generations of Jones's in this part of Carlow which I'll have a go at transcribing and interpreting or do you have this information already - your brother GSJ mentioned land papers he had in an earlier post.

Thanks
Kayes & Hopkins (Wicklow), Jones & Empson (Carlow & Kilkenny), Riddell, Turnbull (Scotland)

Offline Charlie J

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #16 on: Monday 11 February 13 10:03 GMT (UK) »
The John Jones married to Mary was also a Land Agent primarily linked with Sir Ralph Howard of Middlesex but the difficulty here is that John Jones is such a popular name. We can confirm some of the land he had in 1850s but not all.
Interesting you mention St Marys church in Kilkenny as that is where John and Mary were married.

The papers we have are original lease agreements for land in Baltinglass.

I have also found Francis Jones in the Griffins Valuation on town land which borders Woodside in Hacketstown.
Despite high infant mortality rates and lower life expectancies, not one of your direct ancestors died childless.

Offline Charlie J

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Re: Jones and Sharp of Baltinglass/Hackettstown
« Reply #17 on: Monday 01 April 13 13:50 BST (UK) »
A small update on the Joneses from Woodside. Early on in our research we found a reference to a John Jones who died on the 20/4/1830, his age was given as 99 years and was buried in Hacketstown cemetery. This came from a book, John Ryan's "The History And Antiquities Of The County Of Carlow" and was published in 1833.
It was only a short but tantalising possibility to an earlier generation of Joneses in the area. Now I have found confirmation in another publication that places this man as being from Woodside. I found in a Wesleyan Methodist magazine from 1830 that he passed away at the home of his son in Newtown Saunders while on a short visit. This son is also John Jones, my G X3 grandfather. It also stated that he had been a follower of the Methodist faith for 46 years.
While this still doesn't confirm 100% a link between the Baltinglass Joneses and the Woodside Joneses it does bring the possibility very close. I would like to see this latest John Jones B1731 with a son Sheppard Jones. 
I have also just finished reading Robert Leech's "The Jones Family in Ireland" written in 1886. It's an interesting read but I haven't found any link to Woodside. By the way it's available as  free download.
Despite high infant mortality rates and lower life expectancies, not one of your direct ancestors died childless.