Author Topic: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.  (Read 5154 times)

Offline Jamie H

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St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« on: Monday 10 March 08 06:12 GMT (UK) »
I've got two conflicting places for the baptism of Richard WILKS. On the 1851 census it says "St Johns" which I've been told is Bedwardine. And from somewhere I have his baptism place as St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.

I have his birthplace as Hallow.

Does this add up to one Richard WILKS, or two of them?

Jamie
TUDGEY; STEVENS (Surrey); SMITH (Surrey, Essex, Norfolk); WILKS (Worcs); YOUNG (Worcs); COWLEY (Ireland, Surrey); GROVE (Hampshire); REEVES (Gloucs. Worcs.); RETFORD (Hampshire, Surrey); FAIRBROTHER (Kent); WEBB (Surrey, Bucks); WILLIAMS (Pembrokeshire). Nicol (Scotland);DOLLOWAY (Kent); BOX (Worcs).

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Offline Tricia_2

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 11 March 08 01:03 GMT (UK) »
Doesn't the census usually give place of birth, rather than place of baptism?

Could he have been born in Hallow, but lived in St Johns parish, and been baptised in St Bartholomews church? ~ Perhaps if that was the parish of one of his parents?

I have different birthplaces for the same person on different censuses.
Eg one says Ireland & one says America!
Worcs / Glos: Neal Neale Jeynes Jeens Geans Harris Roper Ropier Colley Dyer Heeks Bayzand Hampton Bishop Cole Elton Littlehales McGowan
Glamorgam: Hampton Thornton Svombo Swambo Swanbo Keefe O Keefe Shanahan Shannon Doyle Maldoon Muldoon Davies Llewellyn Jones
Birmingham: Neale Sarjant Cole Hiley Berridge Tirebuck

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Offline Jamie H

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 11 March 08 05:46 GMT (UK) »
I think you are right. St Johns must just be a place, or parish. I think I need to post another question re St Bartholomew's church to find answers here.

Many thanks for your reply,

Jamie
TUDGEY; STEVENS (Surrey); SMITH (Surrey, Essex, Norfolk); WILKS (Worcs); YOUNG (Worcs); COWLEY (Ireland, Surrey); GROVE (Hampshire); REEVES (Gloucs. Worcs.); RETFORD (Hampshire, Surrey); FAIRBROTHER (Kent); WEBB (Surrey, Bucks); WILLIAMS (Pembrokeshire). Nicol (Scotland);DOLLOWAY (Kent); BOX (Worcs).

Offline Tricia_2

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 11 March 08 08:54 GMT (UK) »
I have a feeling that my great aunt, now deceased, said that she had lived in the area of St Johns in Worcester.

Someone else on here was looking at St John Bedwardine. I don't know if they are one and the same, but a local should know.
Worcs / Glos: Neal Neale Jeynes Jeens Geans Harris Roper Ropier Colley Dyer Heeks Bayzand Hampton Bishop Cole Elton Littlehales McGowan
Glamorgam: Hampton Thornton Svombo Swambo Swanbo Keefe O Keefe Shanahan Shannon Doyle Maldoon Muldoon Davies Llewellyn Jones
Birmingham: Neale Sarjant Cole Hiley Berridge Tirebuck

Offline Tricia_2

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 11 March 08 09:07 GMT (UK) »
I've checked maps and they seem to be the same place.

This site has a map link:
'Bell Ringing at St John in Bedwardine' Worcesterhttp://www.wdcra.org.uk/worce3.htm

If you key in to Google:
"Map of Saint Johns, Worcester"
You will get another similar map.

Then you can see that they are the same.

There is more info here:

St John in Bedwardine, Worcester
~ A SHORT HISTORY OF THE CHURCH AND PARISH

A Vision of Worcester St John Bedwardine (inc links to census reports)
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/unit_page.jsp?u_id=10349473

St John’s church website:
http://www.stjohninbedwardine.co.uk/

A quote:
'The part of Worcester we call St John’s was originally an independent township, with the Prior and Convent of Worcester (i.e. the Cathedral today) as Lord of the Manor. It has only been part of Worcester since 1837.'
http://www.stjohninbedwardine.co.uk/parishhistory.html

http://www.achurchnearyou.com/venue.php?V=18634
Worcs / Glos: Neal Neale Jeynes Jeens Geans Harris Roper Ropier Colley Dyer Heeks Bayzand Hampton Bishop Cole Elton Littlehales McGowan
Glamorgam: Hampton Thornton Svombo Swambo Swanbo Keefe O Keefe Shanahan Shannon Doyle Maldoon Muldoon Davies Llewellyn Jones
Birmingham: Neale Sarjant Cole Hiley Berridge Tirebuck

Offline Jamie H

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 March 08 22:36 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much for all that information. I was especially interested in the bit you quoted from the parish history site which said St. Johns was only part of Worcester since 1837. I'd better check to see what county it came under before that. I know that at some stage part of Gloucs became Worcs. so maybe that's it. St Johns was in Gloucs.

:-)

Jamie
TUDGEY; STEVENS (Surrey); SMITH (Surrey, Essex, Norfolk); WILKS (Worcs); YOUNG (Worcs); COWLEY (Ireland, Surrey); GROVE (Hampshire); REEVES (Gloucs. Worcs.); RETFORD (Hampshire, Surrey); FAIRBROTHER (Kent); WEBB (Surrey, Bucks); WILLIAMS (Pembrokeshire). Nicol (Scotland);DOLLOWAY (Kent); BOX (Worcs).

Offline Nemo

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 11 March 08 23:37 GMT (UK) »
Hello Jamie

Just to clarify, Worcester is a city within the county of Worcestershire and St Johns has been a suburb of that city for many years. So no need to look in another county!

Historically Hallow was a chapelry of Grimley. There were no Richard Wilkes baptised at either Hallow or St John in Bedwardine (St Johns) circa 1802.  There was one Wilkes family only in St Johns at that time - Thomas and his wife Hannah. They had at least three children baptised 1799, 1801 and their son William baptised on 5 June 1802, so that would seem to rule that family out. I can also confirm that at that time, Richard was not a common name in the three parishes and none of the illegitimate boys baptised around 1802 had the first name Richard.

So it is looking probable that “your” Richard Wilkes was baptised at Grimley and presumably he was the one who married Maria Severn there on 20 June 1826 The parish registers for 1802 only show the info you have from www.familysearch.org. “ December 29 1802 Richard Wilkes son of Joseph and Ann Wilkes”. I didn’t have time to check if there was any extra info re Richard’s marriage.

You could ask for someone to do a lookup for Joseph Wilkes and Ann’s marriage in the Worcestershire Marriage Index volumes at the Local & Family History Centre in Worcester. Joseph and Ann may well have come from elsewhere - even a parish on the opposite bank of the River Severn! You can check Grimley marriages on Hugh Wallis IGI batch numbers website at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyWorcester.htm#PageTitle

Not specifically relevant to you enquiry but some of Hallow parish became part of St John in Bedwardine parish in 1885 – so very confusing!!
See British History on-line:-
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43138

HTH
Nemo

Offline Jamie H

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 04:15 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the clarification, Nemo. Yes, I think my Richard WILKS is the one who married Maria SEVERN and baptised at Grimley.

I do have the information that Joseph and Ann were married at Winchcombe, Gloucs. Knowing that Richard is an uncommon name leads me to suppose that just possibly I might find Joseph WILKS ancestry if I look for a Richard as his father.

Richard WILKS seems to have been an only child. I can't find any siblings. But, I did notice that Thomas and Hannah WILKS, who you mention, had children with mostly the same names as Richard WILKS of Grimley. So, I have wondered if there was a connection somewhere – across one generation.

Thank you for the Hugh Wallis IGI batch numbers site.

Jamie
TUDGEY; STEVENS (Surrey); SMITH (Surrey, Essex, Norfolk); WILKS (Worcs); YOUNG (Worcs); COWLEY (Ireland, Surrey); GROVE (Hampshire); REEVES (Gloucs. Worcs.); RETFORD (Hampshire, Surrey); FAIRBROTHER (Kent); WEBB (Surrey, Bucks); WILLIAMS (Pembrokeshire). Nicol (Scotland);DOLLOWAY (Kent); BOX (Worcs).

Offline jacques

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Re: St Johns [Bedwardine] & St Bartholomews Church, Grimley.
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 13 April 08 16:11 BST (UK) »
Jus to confuse you sorry am replying to an earlier post re Joseph and Ann Wilks possibility of 1841 1851 Census.
On 1841 @ Stow on the Wold Gloucestershire ref HO 107/366/21

Joseph Wilks    65    Weaver      Not born in Co of Glouc
Ann                   60                     Yes born Glouc
Hannah             25   Daughter     "     "       "

1851 @ The House Grimley Worc there is son Richard with wife Marai and family.

Also found a Death of a James Wilks June qtr 1841 ref Martley XV111 then in brackets (3)  1 (2) whatever that means Apologies if this is a load of rubbish. I did try.  You said Ann Bap at Martley????
Pam
Wragg Sheffield/Rotherham
Noble  Sheffield/Derby
Kirk     Sheffield/Northumberland
Lenton Sheffield
Ward  Deryshire
Twigg Derbyshire

All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright(see www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)