Ancestors in India

[The Engineer]

Hi,
researching my wife's ancestors shows that her 2nd great-grandmother was Mary Ann WHELAN born 21.4.1860 in Barracks at Aldershot to John Whelan (1827 Rathvilla, County Offally, Ireland) and Frances (or Fanny) BEEBY (13.5.1839 Castle Donington, Leicestershire).  They can be seen there in 1861 - 5th Royal Irish Dragoons (Lancers) & East Calvary (sic) Barracks, Aldershot, Hants.

First mystery is I cannot find a marriage for John Whelan and Frances (or Fanny) BEEBY.  It's probably in the UK, but not certain.  Any suggestions?

From the regimental history I know that in 1863 the new regiments first overseas posting saw them leave Portsmouth harbour for Cawnpore Station in India where they remained for the next 10 years.

Whilst in India:

1. One or two more children (at least) were born - Ellen E Whelan (1863 Lucknow, India) is a "possible" and Sarah J Whelan (1868 Lucknow, India) is a definate.  Trying to find proof of these births....
2. John WHELAN must have died (about 1868) - trying to find death record.....
3. His widow Frances (Fanny) WHELAN then married Joseph DONALD (1839 Hulme, Manchester, Lancashire) in India, circa 1870 - he was a Troop Sergeant Major, Denbighshire Yeomanry.  Trying to find marriage record.....
4. At least one child Joseph DONALD was born in India, in 1871.  Trying to find birth record.....
5.  The daughter Mary Ann WHELAN met Francis William (Frank) HAWKINS (wife's great-grandparents) out in India - I cannot find a marriage (circa 1884) for this couple, so again I think it was in India...... (note, they settled in Stinchcombe, Gloucestershire from 1885 onwards where their children were all born).

Joseph & Fanny Donald then settled in Wrexham, Denbighshire, where they can be seen in 1881 and 1891 with their children plus step-daughter Sarah J WHELAN.  Joseph is still with the army, it appears he died at St Asaph in 1892.  Fanny and some of her children then appear at St Helen's in 1901.

Sorry it's such a saga but I do not know how to get Indian records which would be great to prove the relationships and births, and any help and pointers would be really appreciated.  I only found the Joseph & Fanny Donald story last night with a bit of lateral searching on Ancestry.com!!

Many thanks,
Garry

[silvery]

There are one or two things on the IGI (International Genealogical Index of the Latter Day Saints/LDS)

Ellen Whelan
b 2 Jan 1867 Rawal Pindee, West Bengal
chr 2 Mar 1867   
father John Whelan mother Anne
batch number C750207

Sarah Jane Whelan
b 2 Oct 1868 Lucknow, West Bengal
ch 20 Oct 1868
father John Whelan mother Fanny
batch number C750215

Joseph Donald Lucknow West Bengal
b 21 Aug 1871
chr 21 Sept 1871
father Joseph Donald mother Fanny
batch number C750225


These are extracted entries (with the batch number) so more reliable than submitted entries.

[silvery]

deleted - duplicate posting

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi Garry,

I've collected some "India Links" here:

Topic: INDIA: Resources for Ancestors in British India
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,30580.0.html

Hope this helps,
Bob

[The Engineer]

Hi Silvery,
thank you very much for looking up those names on the IGI for me.  I never thought of looking there!  Well, it does prove that the "possible" Ellen is probably not another child of John WHELAN, neither have I been able to find any more children of John & Fanny. 

But - thanks to you - I have now corroborated what I've found in the 1881 & 1891 census returns with birth records.  Thank you very much indeed!!

Cheers,
Garry

[The Engineer]

Hi Berlin Bob!!

thank you very much for that collection of links, I shall start to look through them this afternoon.  I have been busy shopping and cooking this morning!!  Silvery has given me some good information and  - added with your links - I hope to find a bit more. 

I'm rather pleased at finding Fanny remarried again, it now means there are half brothers and sisters for my wife's great-grandmother. Plus a new sister born in India.  It could mean a whole new branch of the family tree!!

Sincere thanks,
Garry

[Denipam]

Hi,
researching my wife's ancestors shows that her 2nd great-grandmother was Mary Ann WHELAN born 21.4.1860 in Barracks at Aldershot to John Whelan (1827 Rathvilla, County Offally, Ireland) and Frances (or Fanny) BEEBY (13.5.1839 Castle Donington, Leicestershire).  They can be seen there in 1861 - 5th Royal Irish Dragoons (Lancers) & East Calvary (sic) Barracks, Aldershot, Hants.

First mystery is I cannot find a marriage for John Whelan and Frances (or Fanny) BEEBY.  It's probably in the UK, but not certain.  Any suggestions?

From the regimental history I know that in 1863 the new regiments first overseas posting saw them leave Portsmouth harbour for Cawnpore Station in India where they remained for the next 10 years.

Whilst in India:

1. One or two more children (at least) were born - Ellen E Whelan (1863 Lucknow, India) is a "possible" and Sarah J Whelan (1868 Lucknow, India) is a definate.  Trying to find proof of these births....
2. John WHELAN must have died (about 1868) - trying to find death record.....
3. His widow Frances (Fanny) WHELAN then married Joseph DONALD (1839 Hulme, Manchester, Lancashire) in India, circa 1870 - he was a Troop Sergeant Major, Denbighshire Yeomanry.  Trying to find marriage record.....
4. At least one child Joseph DONALD was born in India, in 1871.  Trying to find birth record.....
5.  The daughter Mary Ann WHELAN met Francis William (Frank) HAWKINS (wife's great-grandparents) out in India - I cannot find a marriage (circa 1884) for this couple, so again I think it was in India...... (note, they settled in Stinchcombe, Gloucestershire from 1885 onwards where their children were all born).

Joseph & Fanny Donald then settled in Wrexham, Denbighshire, where they can be seen in 1881 and 1891 with their children plus step-daughter Sarah J WHELAN.  Joseph is still with the army, it appears he died at St Asaph in 1892.  Fanny and some of her children then appear at St Helen's in 1901.

Sorry it's such a saga but I do not know how to get Indian records which would be great to prove the relationships and births, and any help and pointers would be really appreciated.  I only found the Joseph & Fanny Donald story last night with a bit of lateral searching on Ancestry.com!!

Many thanks,
Garry

I know this is an old post but it is linked to my family.

Is there anyway to find out the name of the ship the family were on from Portsmouth to Cawnpore in 1863 ?

[Cavreg]

Hi , My ancestor , Joseph David Sinclair ( trumpeter ) was in the 5th Lancers from 1867 to 1879. I have begun to research the regiments movements. Not sure what boat they left for India on but it was reported in the press that some of the 5th were on passage home on the "Euphrates" from India in Dec 1874 after being stationed in Bengal. Around end of Jan 75 they arrived in Portsmouth and proceeded to Colchester. I am trying to check Joseph's birth details. His father was John Sinclair, a drill instructor in the Scots Greys between Oct 1831 - Aug 55 and married Eliza Sinclair nee Really from Cavan , Ireland sometime during the 1830's. I have been unable to locate their marriage date on line. Also unable to verify when and where Joseph was born but it is likely to be between 1853 and 1855 in Ireland as I have had no luck with England / Scottish records.   
Any leads greatly appreciated. Peter.       

[km1971]

Should Garry return, the record for Joseph Donald is on Findmypast - http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo97%2f1731%2f207%2f001&parentid=gbm%2fwo97%2f1731%2f433963&highlights=%22%22

Peter - Welcome and Denipan

The muster books in the National Archives often give details of the ships used. The musters were also used as paylists, and men got reduced pay when on board a ship as food was provided. So the number of days at sea was recorded.

Ken