Why did the Vinden family change their name to "Cooper????

[vinden55]

John Vinden married Jane Prior in 1849, their address at the time of their marriage was Earls Court, Johns father was given as William and profession was a brickmaker.  In 1851 Jane gave birth to a son John Hatton Vinden born in Lambeth, fathers occupation plasterer.  They also had a daughter Jane and another daughter Ellen/Helen? both names have been used and Julia.

Now try and find this family on the 1851, 1861, and 1871 census!!!  What a challenge, No they are not there.  Now I know from family photos and papers found in my grandfathers possession that the family lived in an address 105 Tyers Street Lambeth.  Look at this address for the missing census years

In 1881 at 66 Tyers Street Lambeth there is a family John, a plasterer, Cooper and his wife Jane.  Trace this family back to 1871 and we find  Jane "Cooper" living in 20 Catherine Street Lambeth with daughters  Jane and Julia (right ages for the Vinden girls).  Ok  this "Cooper" family in 1861 are living at  19 Hartley Street, Hougham, Kent John and Jane with their children John Jane, Ellen & Julia - all ties in as vinden children???

Now When Ellen Cooper married Harry Elias Carter in June 1872 she called herself Ellen Vinden Cooper?  or Cooper Vinden.  Why???  On John & Janes death notices they were called "Vinden"


I need help here!!!!!

Am I on the right track or have I missed something??

Help!!


vinden55

[Eyesee]

John Hatton VINDEN appears to be still using the VINDEN surname, married in 1873 to Mary HIGGINBOTHAM. They were in Portslade Road, Battersea in 1881 as VINDEN.

Julia married as VINDEN also to a HIGGINBOTHAM.

Ian C

[vinden55]

Hi There,  Yes John Hatton Vinden was but it is his father John & Jane who used the alias name.   Sorry I might have got it all confused.

We always thought that John Hatton Vindens father was just John Vinden but on John Hatton vindens birth certificate in 1851 his father is named as John Hatton Vinden also.  Now I am not sure if this is an error or whether that is the case.

To confuse things more John Hatton Vinden b. 1851 and Mary Higginbottom also called a son John Hatton Vinden b 1875 d 1877.

Phew!!!!!!!!

Many thanks,

Vinden55

[Valda]

1851 census HO107 1571 folio 284
31 Berkley Street Lambeth
John Cooper 29 Head Married Plasterer Shepperton Middlesex
Jane Cooper 28 Wife Married Fulham Middlesex
Jane Cooper 1 Daughter Lambeth Surrey

The usual reason for the use of two surnames is illegitimacy. If so the information John gave on his marriage about his father should be treated with caution.

Shepperton parish registers I don't think have any coverage on the IGI. Check with the London Metropolitan Archives for whether the records have been deposited with them. You really need to check the St Nicholas Shepperton registers for a possible baptism for John in either the surname Cooper or Vinden.

Regards

Valda

[vinden55]

Thanks Valda.

Many thanks Valda for the info.  You see I am thinking that John knew John Cooper born in Shepperton and for some reason took his name.

John Hatton Vinden was born two days after the 1851 census, the address on his birth certificate was 31 Berkeley Street Lambeth.  The entry in the census for that date shows the house being occupied by  John Cooper born Shepperton ,his wife Jane and daughter Jane (first born 1849)  Now there was a John James Ortton Cooper christened at Shepperton 1820???  is there a connection between the two families, maybe John Hattons father John and John Cooper were work mates as both were plasterers???  but then why would the Vinden family carry on using the Cooper name, Did John vinden take off leaving his family with John Cooper?? but then why would the last born girl Helen/Ellen use the name Vinden Cooper when she married???


Wish I could just pop back in time, knock on the door and find out.

Many thanks for your advice I will check further.

Vinden55

[Valda]

So have you tracked the known Vinden family of Shepperton to see whether there is a connection? Do they appear in the Shepperton parish registers or are they also absent?

1841 census HO107 718/11 folio 26
Shepperton
Maria Vinden 50
George Vinden 15 Ag lab
Henry Vinden 12
all born Middlesex

1851 census HO107 1696 folio 63
Back Row Shepperton
Maria Vinden 62 Widow Pauper formerly weaveress Shoreditch Middlesex

I can't see a death registration for Maria as Vinden (Shepperton registers in Staines registration district) or Henry or George on later censuses or deaths in the civil registration as Vindens.

The other Lambeth registrations for Vinden (at about the same time as John was in Lambeth).

Marriages Sep 1852
VENDEN  Henry     Lambeth  1d 367   
VINDEN  Henry     Lambeth  1d 367
either 
BREAKWELL  Agness    Lambeth  1d 367 
or 
CREASY  Mary Harriet     Lambeth  1d 367   

Births Mar 1853   
Vinden  Edward George     Lambeth  1d 305

Deaths Mar 1854 
Vinden  Edward George     Kensington  1a 73

Regards

Valda

[Necromancer]

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,292924.msg1761566.html#msg1761566

[Valda]

Which still takes us back to the known Vinden family of Shepperton who disappear like John Vinden from using the surname of Vinden (- at least in England).


'I am sure that this Shepperton family is not us!'

Vinden55 what evidence do you have for the Shepperton Vindens that means you have been able to eliminate them?

Have you been able to find the Henry Vinden who married in Lambeth in 1852 (pre or post censuses or in civil registration) and eliminate him?

Regards

Valda

[vinden55]

Hi Valda,

I can not eliminate the Shepperton Vindens but have not made a connection with them yet!!  I am not sure if John Vindens father William had any brothers & sisters.  I have found a William and a John Vinden living together with their wives in Lambeth in 1881 census but am not even sure if they belong to us.

Look I am now wondering, what if John Vinden left his family and Jane lived with or even married John Cooper??? In the latter part of his life  John Vinden worked so the story goes on St. Pauls Cathederal and was killed on 13th. October 1887 when a ceiling fell on him, at that time he was living at 105 Tyers St., Lambeth and that was the address for Jane Vinden at her death in 1886 when she was burnt to death by house fire.  Children off their hands, they got back together??

I am not discounting the Shepperton family but at this stage cannot make a connection.  many thanks for all your help, very much appreciated.

Vinden55