Author Topic: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown  (Read 36950 times)

Offline jeenie

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The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« on: Thursday 10 April 08 02:43 BST (UK) »
To be practical, if there are people who don't know anything about WWI, then it is reasonable there are some who have never heard of Capability Brown, the English Landscape Gardener.  If so, it is probably a waste to read on.    ???    8)

It has been passed down in the extended family that great grandfather, who went under the name of Robert, always said that he was descended from Capability Brown.

I have spent literally 100s of hours trying, from here in SA, to prove this by tracing Capability's descendants and their lives, and a Contender is Rev George Brown, Rector of Pucklechurch (and of Sidney College Cambridge - which he attended in 1810).  (tracing Robert's origins, where he came from and how he arrived here by the 1850s is completely without success.)

The Rev George in his adult life claimed to be the son of Lancelot Brown MP, who was Capability's eldest son, and there is (are) corroborating evidence that this is so;  and George was possibly or probably raised as George Hall.  He died 19 Jul 1819.

(Our robert died Jul Jul 1893 recorded age 72, but it is proven that our grandfather, his son, put his age down all his adult married life by 4 years - and went by only one of his Christian names;  and Robert was well educated.)

So can anyone tell, or find out, if George ever married, and regardless, if he ever had any children ?

Another Contender if the Rev Thomas Charles Brown (son of Capability's youngest son Thomas) who, if not Robert's father, possibly was his guardian, or in loco parentis.  [names of TC's children included Augusta and Charles, and his brother was Lancelot Robert;  our Robert's children included Augusta, Robert, Charles, and possibly Thomas as 1st born.]

And the bon viveur Rev Lancelot Robert Brown is a 3rd Contender.  (Not to mention Capability's other grandsons, Lancelot Holland, or George or James Rust.)

If anyone can shed light on any of the above hypotheticals, should love to hear from you;  otherwise :

if anyone can help, or make suggestions, or tell me where to go . . .   - for a while now I have been all worked, being all gene'd, out.

This is Jeenie's husband here seeking assistance.          (South Australia)        JOH.

[Thomas Charles was Chaplain to the Duke of Manchester, Curate of Somersham, Isle of Ely and St Peter's, Pimlico Middlesex;  and Lancelot Robert was Rector of St Mary and St Peter, Kelsale cum Carlton, Thornton and Saxmundham.



Harvie -  Dunbartonshire 1864
Tait     -   Maybole 1858

Offline jeenie

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 12 April 08 07:12 BST (UK) »
The above has been Modified today - refer the top 2 (new) sentences ie, the 1st Paragraph.    Thank you.    :)  :)
Harvie -  Dunbartonshire 1864
Tait     -   Maybole 1858

Offline Valda

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 12 April 08 08:24 BST (UK) »
Have you accessed the details of Lancelot Brown's Prerogative Court of Canterbury will for information on his descendents?

Will of Lancelot Brown of Buckden, Huntingdonshire 06 May 1802 PROB 11/1374

It can be obtained immediately from The National Archives cost £3.50

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/

If you have what information does it give?

Did George Brown die in Pucklechurch or elsewhere?

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jeenie

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 12 April 08 09:52 BST (UK) »
Have you accessed the details of Lancelot Brown's Prerogative Court of Canterbury will for information on his descendents?

Yes, thank you, Valda.   Thank you very much.     :)

I do have the Will of Lancelot Brown, which with Codicils runs to 29 Pages, and took me at the time 40 hours to decypher.  The Total of Beneficiaries included therein is >2 dozen, principally relatives, but not grand children - but including "my brother George Brown . . ."  I also have his wife's Will, the Will of his son "John Brown Esquire an Admiral in his Majesty's Navy", the Beneficiaries of "Mary Brown wife of the late Admiral John" (obtained from http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp), The Wills of Thomas Brown his youngest son, James Rust son-in-Law, and Henry Holland nephew;  and also (bachelor) John Fuller brother-in-Law of Lancelot Jnr, which runs to 18 pages of small handwriting and makes no mention of any of the Brown family.  I could, briefly, detail these contents  but when I did this for my family it took 7 pages of my handwriting.  However, it was interesting to note that in a Codicil made the day before he died, Capability reduced the legacy to his eldest son Lancelot (Lance, the MP) by £1,000;  and to be brief, in a Will made the day he died, Lance directed all his possessions were to be converted to cash for the benefit of George Hall - but later added a Codicil that certain family heirlooms were to go to named family individuals etc, and the remainder in cash to George.

To answer your other question, Valda, I believer the Rev George Brown died in Bath.   :)

[I am also aware of the entry in the Gentleman's Magazine Jan 1830 P89. - which is reputed to record that the Rev George was the son of Lance, but which detail disagrees with other detail I have found.  After much searching, and several elapsed months, I found a copy of this Publication here in the Adelaide Library, in the rare books section - and this made no mention of George.  However, after even more investigation, it comes about that apparently in a later Edition, there appears a marginalized note On the 9th Inst. Died at bath the Rev. George Brown, late of Pucklechurch, Gloucester, and of Sydney College, Cambridge, son of the late Lancelot Brown Esq., M.P. for Huntingdon.-Ipswich Journal, July 24 1819.]

According to the present Archivist of Sidney Sussex College, Cambrige, "from Venn's Alumni Cantobrigienses George Brown, the son of Lancelot Brown of Hirtloe (sic - Stirtloe ?) House, Hunts., was born there on 27 September 1785 . . .  He was admitted as Fellow-commoner at Sidney on 27 September 1810 . . ."

Whew . . .    :)   :)
Harvie -  Dunbartonshire 1864
Tait     -   Maybole 1858


Offline Valda

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 12 April 08 10:28 BST (UK) »
Have you checked Buckden parish registers for the baptism of either a George Hall or a George Brown? The registers are neither on the IGI or the BVRI but I believe there is a transcript at Huntingdon Archives Office.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HUN/Buckden/index.html

Have you had the death duty registers checked at The National Archives for Lancelot's will? TNA research guide

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=107

'The registers in IR 26 between 1796 and 1903 include information not found elsewhere. They show what happened to someone's personal estate (not freehold) after death; and what it was actually worth, excluding debts and expenses. They can give the name of the deceased, with address and last occupation, the date of the will, the place and date of probate, the names, addresses and occupations of the executors, and details of estates, legacies, trustees, legatees, annuities and the duty paid. They can also give the date of death, and information about the people who received bequests (beneficiaries), or who were the next-of-kin, such as exact relationship to the deceased. Tax was not payable on bequests to people within a closely defined family circle, and as a result the family relationship was often noted in the registers. In 1796, tax was not payable on bequests to offspring, spouse, parents and grandparents. In 1805, the exemption was restricted to spouse and parents.  From 1815, only bequests to the spouse were exempt from paying tax. Because the registers could be annotated for many years after the first entry, they can include information such as dates of death of spouse; dates of death or marriage of beneficiaries; births of posthumous children and grandchildren; change of address; references to law suits, cross references to other entries, etc..........'


Regards

Valda
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Offline Valda

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 12 April 08 10:32 BST (UK) »
PCC wills and wills proved locally for Somerset and Gloucestershire are indexed online but not administrations. It might be worth checking with Somerset RO or even TNA to check whether George Brown's estate had an adminsitration, if a will can't be found. Administrations are also covered by the Death Duty registers.

Regards

Valda
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Offline jeenie

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 12 April 08 11:16 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much for this information, Valda.   It is all new to me, what i did not know about, have never heard of before.

It has been so terribly difficult researching from this far away, and so much, not the least the geography I have found out, social administration(s) etc I have now realized I just don't understand.   I will need to get my head around what you have provided, and investigate - it sounds very interesting.

And, if you will bear with me, please, to show ignorance, or mental block, what is BVRI;  and PCC Wills ?

I have checked the 2 names on LDS Family Search IGI site.

Thanks again.   
Harvie -  Dunbartonshire 1864
Tait     -   Maybole 1858

Offline Valda

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 12 April 08 11:45 BST (UK) »
PCC wills = Prerogative Court of Canterbury wills

TNA research guide

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=220

The National Archives research guides are very useful

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp

After 1858 all wills were proved by the state.

BVRI = British Isles Vital Record Index - 2nd Ed.

http://genoot.com/downloads/BVRI2/

Regards

Valda
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Offline jeenie

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Re: The Mystery associated with Lancelot (Capability) Brown
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 12 April 08 15:25 BST (UK) »
Thanks again, Valda.  Sorry I haven't responded before, re your last.

There is only the 1 computer between two of us.   And now its not working properly, [now fixed].

But I shall look into what you have sent.

I guess you won't mind if I have any questions.    :)

Ta again.
Harvie -  Dunbartonshire 1864
Tait     -   Maybole 1858