Author Topic: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal  (Read 11068 times)

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 07:23 BST (UK) »
FRENCH, William         
Matilda MORLEY      
Marriage Date:1 Nov 1856 St Mary Hitchin, Hertfordshire
Husband's Father:William FRENCH
Wife's Father:John MORLEY

one of the Izzard children's birth certificates would establish their mother Charlotte's maiden name.

1841 census HO107 445/1 folio 31
Hitchin
George Izzard 30 Labourer born Hertfordshire
Charlotte Izzard 25 born Foreign parts
Charles Izzard 11 born Hertfordshire
Richard Izzard 3 born Hertfordshire
Alice Izzard 1 born Hertfordshire
Matilda Morley 8 born Ireland

ALICE IZZARD
Christening:  22 MAY 1840   Hitchin, Hertford
Death:  04 SEP 1841   
Father:  GEORGE IZZARD   
Mother:  CHARLOTTE 

Births Jun 1840   
Izzard  Alice    Hitchin  6 552

Deaths Sep 1841
IZZARD  Alice     Hitchin  6 325

RICHARD IZZARD
Christening:  21 SEP 1838   St Mary, Hitchin, Hertford
Father:  GEORGE IZZARD 
Mother:  CHARLOTTE 

More tricky possible birth registration

Births Sep 1838   
IZZARD  Male    Hitchin  6 503

no subsequent Male death registration in the same quarter.

or

ALFRED IZZARD 
Christening:  30 MAR 1842   St Mary, Hitchin, Hertford
Father:  GEORGE IZZARD 
Mother:  CHARLOTTE 

Births Mar 1842   
Izzard  Alfred     Hitchin  6 563

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 07:38 BST (UK) »
Burial
St Ippollitts Ippollitts
6th February 1834   
John MORLEY   
aged 28   

Could be a convenient red herring as there are 8 locally born Morleys in Ippollitts on the 1851 census and one born Bedfordshire.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,378
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 07:55 BST (UK) »
Pam,
Yes, I'm afraid it's looking as though the Charlotte MacNeelance/William Morley alliance may not be the correct one and is indeed a different family.  It produces someone with the correct name in Charlotte Morley, but the selfsame family continue in India well beyond the timeframe in which we're hoping to fit this puzzle together...
And Valda, thanks for reminding me that Mathilda's father's name was given on her first marriage certificate.  However, if that info about John Morley is indeed correct, then it's likely that her mother Charlotte's family name was something else other than Morley before she married John (if she did!)
That death of John Morley in exactly the right area in 1834 looks tempting, but somehow it seems to rule out the whole India/ Ireland saga - or does it?
I'm beginning to wonder whether this one will ever be solved, in spite of sterling work by so many Rootschatters on here...
keith

Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,378
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 08:06 BST (UK) »
...too bleary-eyed and befuddled to take everything in in your post, Valda, concerning the birth certificates of George and Charlotte's children.  Of course I should order one of these to establish what maiden name Charlotte gives - just hope she doesn't give her name formerly as MORLEY.
As usual I've sent all the research I did on the IZZARD family to my friend in Denmark without keeping exact copies of the tree, etc., but I think her direct ancestor was Alfred, b. 1842, so I'll send away for that and hope she's happy to reimburse me...!
keith


Offline Keith Sherwood

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,378
  • The grass covers and the rain effaces. Victor Hugo
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 09 July 08 10:05 BST (UK) »
An update,
Alfred's 1842 birth certificate came today, and sad to say his mother Charlotte IZZARD gave her name as "formerly MORLEY".
So we're no nearer the truth about her origins after all.  And as her daughter Mathilda gives her father's name as John MORLEY when she first marrries in 1856, Charlotte presumably must have had a maiden name of another sort before her first marriage to husband MORLEY...
keith

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 10 July 08 06:16 BST (UK) »
Or it could of course mean her maiden name was actually Morley.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline georgetsaviel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 13 July 08 04:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Pam,
My name is George Thomas Saviel and I have been searching
for my Greatgrandfather George Thomas Saviel who was born in India about 1827.
I think he married in India in 1853 to Sophia Mary Morley and
Later remarried in Burma in 1873 to Daw Hnin Si.

Sophia Mary Saviel Remarried in 1894 in Calcutta India to
Henry .M. Josephs .
I donot know about George Saviel Snr he was buried in

Calcutta  on 10 Sept.1833.
Thats all I know.
George Thomas Saviel Was a Accountant for the India Public
Works Dept. in India and Burma from 1861-1888.
He died sometime betwheen 1890 and 1905 in Burma.

I hope this help.

George.T.Saviel
13 July 2008
Researching Saviel,Wilkinson,Richardson and Morley.
All in India and Burma and Davies.

Offline georgetsaviel

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #25 on: Monday 14 July 08 04:35 BST (UK) »
Dear Pam,
I would like to know if you know any thing about George
Thomas Saviel who married Sophia Mary Morley.
His fathers name was George Saviel.

Do you know his mothers name.

Sophia Mary Saviel Remarried in Calcutta in 1894 to Henry
Maseyk Joseph 64 Widower Jeweler. at Lall Bazor Baptist church in Callcutta,India.
His Father was Araton Jacob Joseph.

I hope this help you.

Yoursfaithfully,

George Thomas Saviel
14 July 2008. :) :) :)
Researching Saviel,Wilkinson,Richardson and Morley.
All in India and Burma and Davies.

Offline Bstar1826

  • RootsChat Pioneer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Charlotte MORLEY b. circa 1814-1816 Barenpore Bengal
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 10 April 14 16:03 BST (UK) »
Good luck all with finding records of the McNeelance surname! This is a very rare surname.  I've been trying to find the parents of George McNeelance born 1788 in Northern Ireland.  His parents immigrated to the United States when he was a baby or a very small child.  He had a sister Mary & a brother John both older then him.  The parents died shortly after arrival in America and the children were separated.  George had no memory of them.  The farm family George was indentured to told him this.  Early documents record the surname as McNeelance, in later records the name is shortened and became McNeelan, all known descendants of George now bear the name McNeelan.  Records of the sister Mary have been found.  Her name is recorded as McNeelance.  John has not been found.   

The source of the above information merely tells us he was born near the boundary of Scotland and Ireland.  The reference to Scotland is thought to mean The Ulster Plantation of Northern Ireland that was settled by Scots.  United States census records also list his birthplace as Ireland.   Source information was a letter written in 1904 by George's son John Davis McNeelan to his niece Susan George and the 1850 U.S. Census record for Columbiana, Co., Ohio.

I have seen these McNeelance family records in India as well.  I have no known connection to a common ancestor between our McNeelance families but given the rarity of the name I find the possibility very likely.

I have seen a few other McNeelance or variant spellings in America who came before and a few afterwards, besides these families, the largest & most consistent concentration of families I have found with this surname can be found in Tyrone County, Ireland.  PRONI (Public Records if Northern Ireland) have this name along with variant spellings listed in their Ecatalogue.  The earliest reference is around 1720.  They are also mentioned in the Letters from the Abercorn estates.  The access to PRONI is online and free.  Be sure to search the name McNeilance as well, the spellings seem to be interchangeable.  There were really no established rules about spelling before the late 1800's, whoever was doing the recording spelled it the way it sounded.

Interestingly, these records from PRONI mention the town of Strabane whose River Foyle is the boundary between Northern Ireland and what is now the Irish Republic.  This would fit quite nicely with the statement that my George McNeelance was born near the boundary of Scotland, presumably Ulster Ireland, and Ireland.  Also, many immigrants from Tyrone County are found in and around Allegheny County, Pennsylvania where the earliest records of George's adulthood can be found.

I have been trying to discover the name of George's parents for at least 35 years.  Sadly, the letter written by his son does not mention the parents by name, it only refers to them as his "parents". 

There will be a DNA surname project in the near future for the name McNeelance.  Any males who carry the surname are invited to join.  The surname project traces the DNA that is carried only by the direct male line of descent.  It will establish a common ancestral origin if one exists and predict the number of generations from the most recent common ancestor.  The surname project will be found under McNeelan at FamilytreeDNA.  We have the kit but have not yet submitted DNA.  I am a female, my brother will be contributing the DNA.  Variants will be any possible spelling of McNeelance, McNeilance, McNeelans, McNeilan, McNeelan, etc. 

If any researching the McNeelance surname stumble upon records from my family please post!!  I will do the same.  I haven't seen any records of the India McNeelance familes that aren't already spoken about in these posts.  If I find additional information I will do the same.