Author Topic: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire  (Read 16702 times)

Offline gilb

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #9 on: Monday 31 August 09 11:51 BST (UK) »
I had intended my question about Sylvanus Buckland's roots for RomanyRoser but as these are my first postings, I too am learning and should have made that clear.
Sylvanus' father was William Buckland, not John, which is just the name Sylvanus gave when he was in trouble with the law, presumably to distance himself from his family.  William's occupation on his death certificate is 'labourer', not a traditional Romany occupation.
Sylvanus was born in Widcombe, Bath in about 1834.  His father was William who died of decline in 1838 aged 37, so never made it to the 1841 census.  Sylvanus' parents married in Bath in 1826 or 1827 (25th December I believe). They then lived in fixed accommodation and were certainly not travelling after their marriage.  I think the Buckland roots MAY have been in Ditcheat but have no proof of this, just an older Buckland couple living in Widcombe in the 1841 census who came from Ditcheat and another Sylvanus Buckland in the nbi buried in Ditcheat aged 22 in about 1829. 
Sylvanus' mother was born Hannah Batten/Batton,  in Somerset (Chard or Whitestaunton?) about 1804 so that has no particular Romany links.
So Sylvanus Buckland did not come from Buckinghamshire, but Somerset, and his parents lived in a house/tenement all their married lives. 
So whatever the pope may be, this Sylvanus was not a traveller, though of course, back a couple of generations, who knows?!
PS The earlier references to Heinz Buckland are really just Harry Buckland and are a mistake in the official transcription. 

Offline Steve G

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #10 on: Monday 31 August 09 14:00 BST (UK) »
Sylvanus' father was William Buckland, not John, which is just the name Sylvanus gave when he was in trouble with the law, presumably to distance himself from his family. 

So Sylvanus Buckland did not come from Buckinghamshire, but Somerset


 That's interesting stuff  :) So; Ye obviously have this guy pretty well pinned down, and ye reckon he's the same one Roser appears to have pinned ..... but, I can't seem to see where the guy's said to come from Buckinghamshire  ???

 And Sylvanus 'gave a different fathers forename when he was in trouble with the law' ....? Was Sylvanus often in trouble then?  Only, Gypsys tended to adopt a different surname when it hit the fan. Never before heard of Anyone changing their fathers forename. Most intriguing.

 So; We have Sylvanus Buckland of Bath, who was a Blacksmith by profession and a very naughty boy!  ;D

Anyone know what he did, to get Transported? Was he, perhaps, in constant mischief and they got fed up with him? Or did he pull off one big action that got him sent over? (Though, of course, in those days it didn't seem to take a lot to get that sort of response, did it?)

 Gilb, forgive me. I'm not trying to somehow up the Gypsy body count here. People ask if a surname is associated with Gypsys and I tell them, best I can. But, as I said above; It requires a lot more.

 Only, 'Sylvanus' is one hum dinger of a name, isn't it? And being a Blacksmith and having been sent over? I'd have put money on a result there.  What a shame ye can't get that one generation back. Because I'd like to see who was around this guy. See why William might decide to use such a name on his boy.

 Incidentally: " William " is listed as The Number One, all time most popular name for male Gypsys!  :o Wouldn't credit it, would ye? Not that every William is a Romany. But, it seems just about Every Romany family managed to fit a William in. Crazy, eh?  ;)
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline vince smith

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 01 September 09 15:47 BST (UK) »
Anyone can tell from my posts on this forum that I'm no genealogist.  However given the fact that I am a living, breathing, Gypsy, I can sometimes offer anecdotal evidence and details from oral history that has been handed down.

With that in mind, South Bucks, is now and has been for centuries, a hot spot for the Buckland Gypsies.  There are hundreds of them there today and all within spitting distance of Stoke Poges.

What's more, like my Smith family, there prefered route of travel was from the fruit growing areas of Bucks, to other picking seasons in the West. ( Wilts, Glos, Hereford, etc.   Add " ag" to the word labourer and add that to the name Sylvanus Buckland and I would say there is an 80% probability of a Gypsy ancestor.

Offline eillo

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 25 August 11 14:46 BST (UK) »
I am also seeking BUCKLAND in Buckinghamshire for my soon-to-be sister-in-law. I've researched back (with census, vitals etc) to Louisa BUCKLAND d/o Edward marrying William LEE s/o James (although I think this might have been a fib) on 13 Feb 1843 in Camberwell, Surrey.

I have William & Lousia (BUCKLAND) LEE in 1851 census Newington Surrey. Louisa is 23 so her dob is circa 1828. She gives her place of birth as Buckinghamshire but I cannot find her or father Edward in 1841 census.

Really want to find out who her mother is and take the line back further if possible.

On marriage record William LEE is a minor, a traveller, and both fathers list occupations as Brazier. Does anyone have any info on these families?
Simpson, Fuller, Page, Stead, Caspall, Philpott, Williams, Elvery, Whibley, Fryer/Friar, Sutton, Grant, Allard, Packman, Steadman, Norris, Drury, Boughton, Spratt, Munday, Rabbit, Wildbore


Offline jc26red

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #13 on: Friday 02 September 11 18:00 BST (UK) »
Beware there are loads and loads of Bucklands around Stoke Poges Bucks area who are not travellers.
The clue to this lot is their names are bog standard names of the times, john, Charles, Edwards, Williams etc.,.
I have a James Buckland from Bucks who went off to Westminster, married a lady from Durham in Westminster 1811 and spent the next 20 years toing and froing between Datchet/Langley Marish/Eton and Westminster, children baptised in both places. James was an upholsterer as was his wife and daughters. The children were all well educated, one son went on to be a post master and the other one disappeared around 1843.
They don't give any clues to being travellers... 
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Offline eillo

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #14 on: Friday 02 September 11 18:11 BST (UK) »
Thank you jc26red, I appreciate your response.

Since the marriage record states "traveller" and both parents occupations are given as "Brazier " (isn't this a common gypsy traveller occupation?) I think my Lee and Buckland bride and groom were indeed travellers.

If I'm wrong, please advise but that's my understanding. This is new to me
Simpson, Fuller, Page, Stead, Caspall, Philpott, Williams, Elvery, Whibley, Fryer/Friar, Sutton, Grant, Allard, Packman, Steadman, Norris, Drury, Boughton, Spratt, Munday, Rabbit, Wildbore

Offline jc26red

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #15 on: Friday 02 September 11 18:29 BST (UK) »
I think you are probably right with your particular couple being travellers.  They married very you didn't they!

I've looked or Edward or Louisa but can't find either of them in 1841.

My concern is that they give the same occupation for both fathers on the marriage cert and neither sets of parents signed as witnesses.... which I think is unusual given their ages and both acknowledged to be minors.  Think there maybe more untruths on the cert.

Jenny
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Offline Glennx

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 16 July 17 03:21 BST (UK) »
If anyone wants to know more about the descendants of Sylvanus Buckland let me know or contact the Jarrahdale Historical Society in Western Australia ( its a great little town) .

He did indeed get transported , was unmarried (only 19) and lived in Jarrahdale. He got ten years for stealing a silver watch. I visited his grave last week. His son Benjamin Sylvanus (my grandfather) survived WW1 however his brother John was killed July 1917 in Ypers and is buried near the Mennin Gate. There are many living family members in Western Australia, where, convicts are cool...lol.


Offline Glennx

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Re: Bucklands in Buckinghamshire
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 16 July 17 03:28 BST (UK) »
Jarrahdale Football Club 1912 , Benjamin Sylvanus Buckland front row, second from left.