Author Topic: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond  (Read 22879 times)

Offline Cambron

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 18 October 12 13:37 BST (UK) »
On the basis that inputs to this web site should assist rather than confuse may I set out the following:

1)I have looked at the London Marriage Certificate for Malcolm Stewart and Catherine Bromley.There is nothing there which gives his age,father,occupation or origin.Similarly for Catherine.

2)I have looked at the London Baptism certificates for their children.There is information on their address and his occupations(Warehouseman/Clerk) but nothing else.

3)The identified reference linking Malcolm to Blair Atholl is his NSW Death certificate.To date no linkages have been found in UK documentation.

4)The only David/Malcolm Father/Son relationship on the Blair Atholl register is the Malcolm born 1786 to David Stewart and Elspet(h) Setton(Seaton) who married in 1785.The Ancestry of this couple is easily traceable on SP.

5)This why the Authors of the various trees on the Web have chosen this as the source for Malcolm.In the context that not all births,marriages and deaths were registered in Blair Atholl at this time, some think this assumption is risky, some think it is acceptable.

6)If you find additional UK documentation perhaps you can post it here. :)

I hope this assists?

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Offline BIMINI

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #19 on: Friday 19 October 12 09:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Cambron

Thanks for your information being able to view records which are not available to those in other countries but the marriage record of the marriage of Malcolm and Catherine is on Ancestry and I note that the provision for any broader information is not provided for as the information sought is very limited.
You refer to the NSW Death Certificate which is, unfortunately , all we have to go on for the short time this country has developed into now. Because of this it is also a fair assumption that a 29 year old son (who was born in the UK) , being the informant, would be able to relate the details of his parents history which he would have heard/learnt through his family interaction.
Your point 4) is very good , is it a fair assumption that the names that the informant gave, David and Euphemia Seaton, are meant to be the same as the names you relate? If so, the information is correct except for the spelling of names- I would presume that spelling was not a great ability for those immigrants , and therefore my information is pretty good but I would like to have your advices as to what/where "SP"is.
Thanks for your input which is appreciated but short of going to the UK to obtain, my home grown documentation will have to suffice as I know all of their great achievements since 1834.

Regards
BIMINI
Hogan from Quin County Clare, Molony's from O'Briens Bridge County Clare, Donnelly's from Down and McCrumb from Armagh all arriving in Australia in the 1800's

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Offline Cambron

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #20 on: Friday 19 October 12 17:39 BST (UK) »
Malcolm's children's baptisms are also on Ancestry.

SP is the official site for Scottish genealogy:
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

People complain about the cost of searching the site but it does give you the images of the original registers.If you're not keen on paying you will get most of the info from the register transcriptions on Familysearch.

Offline Throth

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #21 on: Friday 19 October 12 19:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Bimini,

As Cambron said earlier, all of the marriages for Blair Atholl parish are on the borenich website and this will tell you where the bride and groom were living.

If you need the birth / baptismal records, give us the names and dates and one of our researchers could have a look for you.  The entry for the birth of the twins is as follows:

"David Stewart in Levadge and Elspeth Setton his wife had twins born 15th March and baptised 16th named Malcolum & Christian".

Malcolum is as it appears, but don't worry about the spelling as they would all have been speaking in Gaelic. All of the Iains appear as John, and all of the Alastairs appear as Alexander etc.

As we said previously the use of the forename Malcolm is unusual amongst the Blair Atholl Stewarts.  The only one that springs to mind is Shierglass's brother - and he died in Jamaica. Likewise, the use of David as a forename amongst these Stewarts is extremely rare. So having the two combined gives an extremely high probability that you have the correct family.

However, it would be nice to see if their disappearance from Blair Atholl matches the dates of events in London.  It is possible that there are rental records for Levadge in the Blair Castle archives, and these might help.

By the way Levadge is shown on James Stobie's map, but not on the 1st Edition of the Ordnance Survey - its position must have been close to Upper Strathgroy.  Both of these maps are available on-line from the NLS and are free of charge.  If you need help get back to us.

Isis (www.borenich.co.uk)

Offline jillaust

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 23 February 14 05:40 GMT (UK) »
To Bimini

I am also the 4th great-grandchild of David and Euphemia and have done a lot of research, with the same main facts (births in London, marriages and baptisms in Blair Atholl) as you have coming to light.

I think Charles Stewart as informant was quite unreliable (have you seen his gaol records and the records of his marriage and death ?) and his facts may have been sourced from Catherine, also not really in the know.  It is possible that David was a local medicine man, though a farmer by day.

I would like to know when Malcolm left Scotland, and assume it had something to do with the clearances.  He was a warehouseman in London and I think probably at the EIC warehouses because they lived really close to them until they left.  In 1834 a whole lot of employees were sacked and even though poor Malcolm didn't do much with his life thereafter he did make the big move.

His daughter Amelia was my 3 x g grandmother.  She and her father were upholsterers it would seem, by 1848.

Elspeth for some reason was commonly used in church records instead of Euphemia in Scotland and in fact the name was probably Effie or the Gaelic Oirhig.

Regards Jill
 

Offline BIMINI

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 23 February 14 06:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jill

I must admit it was a pleasant surprise to receive your post as I was of the belief that I must be the only one researching this side of my tree.
As you are descendant from the Australian side (although Amelia was born in London) I am from Amelia's youngest sister Annie and it is from her marriage that I have been concentrating of late when she married into the Irish line.
As far as the London issue is I am at a loss and I note that this same topic came up in the last post on this topic . I do not know what events I probably should know of as all I know is that Malcolm and Catherine were married in London in 1824 and left England on 20/11/1834 on the "James" and arrived 20/1/1835 in Port Jackson. On the same voyage was the Rev. John Dunmore Lang, the founder of the Presbyterian Church in Australia.
With the history prior to this, I am at a loss and you will note that previous posts were made in good faith from the records available but I am interested in your comments regarding Charles Stewart and Catherine , and "the clearances" plus what you can tell me about the events which were occurring until their leaving for Australia.
Thank you for the contact and look forward to any information you give me- let me know if you require any documentation from 1835 onwards and I will see what I have.
Regards
Bimini
Hogan from Quin County Clare, Molony's from O'Briens Bridge County Clare, Donnelly's from Down and McCrumb from Armagh all arriving in Australia in the 1800's

Offline jillaust

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #24 on: Monday 24 February 14 01:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bimini
I am so glad to hear from you.  It is always lovely to be in touch with cousins.  I am actually Ameliaís 2nd great-grandchild, 3rd was a typo, so we are on the same plane ancestrally speaking.  Her only son Samuel was my great grandfather.
I couldnít see any connection between the posts about the Stewarts in London and you on Rootschat but assumed I had missed something.  Does this mean that someone else wants to know what we do?
Annie in some family histories was said to have been been married in Scots church by Dunmore Lang.  I found this strange, as Matthew Molony was a Catholic, Catherine was Congregational by this time and Annie was christened in the McGarvie Scots church, not the Lang church.  Was it just a guess do you think?
Also Annie was responsible for the removal of the Stewart corpses from Devonshire Street to Waverley cemetery in 1901 rather than Amelia and I wondered why.  Amelia was really old by then of course.
The farmsteads Levage where our Malcolm was born, and Balinluig, home of his grandfather Malcolm when he was married just disappeared from records after 1786 and Strathgroy (the name of the district) doesnít seem to have had any records thereafter either so I am wondering if this was when David and Euphemia moved off the farm.  The Murrays of Atholl were amongst the first to clear the farmlands (for deer parks in their case I believe, lovely people) so maybe our Stewarts became crofters or moved far away to the mills of Glasgow (for instance).  In this case it will be almost impossible to trace British movements I think, including when Malcolm landed in London.  I have quite a good trace on Catherine Bromley.
Charles Stewart was gaoled in 1848 for four months, I donít know why, and later in Maitland twice for crimes to do with drunkenness.  He married Mary Didsbury in Auckland in 1852, they came back to Sydney where their son was born, then she went back to New Zealand where the child died of measles aged 10 months.   Mary lived until 1915 and was buried with her mother (her father had departed for Sydney long before the mother died) in Auckland.   Charles ended up in Newington Asylum and as with so many, it is likely his problem was drink.
I have never seen the baptismal records for the children born to Malcolm and Catherine in Sydney, so would be grateful if you could verify the residences and fatherís occupation on them for me.  Annieís marriage certificate might answer the above question if you have it Ė place of wedding, officiating minister.
And the Sydney Gazette of 24/5/1837 gives you a glimpse of Malcolm Ė have a look.
Do keep in touch, Jill

Offline Throth

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 25 February 14 12:00 GMT (UK) »
Out of curiosity we scanned all of the births/baptisms at Levadge from 1785 to 1800 in case something was missing from the IGI database, but found no more children for David Stewart.  However, we did find a John Stewart and his wife Helen Stewart living at Levadge at the same time.

John Stewart in Levadge and Helen Stewart in Dauchinlialash, 8 Feb 1788 (Blair Atholl OPR, marriages)

Their children were:
Malcom, b 17 Nov 1788 at Levadge;
Isabel, b 3 Oct 1790 at Levadge;
Alexander, b 11 Nov 1792 at Levadge

The IGI database also lists John, b 30 Mar 1800 at Guay Park, Ceannamoin, with parents of the same name.

Also Donald, b 22 Mar 1805 at Uchdnanetaig with parents of the same name, but not the same family.

As John and Helen's eldest son is named Malcom, it is very likely that John and David were brothers.  If so, did the two families leave Blair Atholl together?

We also had a thought about Cronnlach, Moulin parish, which was given as Elspeth Setton's address when she married.  Duncan Seaton in Loinchollach, Moulin parish married 12 Jan 1789.  Given the proximity of the people that they married, we think that both refer to Lyconlach in Glengirnaig, which is given as Lycondlich on the Ordnance Survey.  It was quite common to drop the 'Ly' or 'Loin' part of the name and call it Conlach.

Throth

Offline BIMINI

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Re: Seaton's in Blair Atholl Perthshire 1800 and beyond
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 02 March 14 08:09 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Troth

Great to catch up again and birthdates are welcome.
I have been going over previous assistance I received from this site and I would like for more information on a response you gave me on 19/10/2012 regarding "if their disappearance from Blair Atholl matches the dates of events in London".
Could you elaborate on this please as it would be a help is there is a reason which caused Malcolm to move to London and subsequent leave for Australia.

Thanks

Bimini
Hogan from Quin County Clare, Molony's from O'Briens Bridge County Clare, Donnelly's from Down and McCrumb from Armagh all arriving in Australia in the 1800's