John Howarth - Rochdale

[strogger]

Hi John,
I'm looking for relatives of Gladys Howarth believed born in yorkshire. The only information I have is she had a daughter Anne in 1928 in Lambeth hospital. At that time she was living in the district of Westminster. She was born out of wedlock and was subsequently adopted.
Could this be your Gladys?
Strogger.

[aber]

Hi Jonathan

I am researching into my family history and wonder if your John Howarth is an uncle of my grandfather Harry Howarth.  On Harry's death certificate it is recorded that his parents were John (a green grocer) and Elizabeth Howarth but I have since found out from his marriage certificate that his father was James as recorded in the 1891 census below.  Maybe John and Elizabeth (parents) were actually John and Eliza (Aunt and Uncle) as recorded here.  I wonder if you have done any more research on this topic?  Did your John have a brother James?

Regards
Aber

1891 census - Wuerdle and Wardle Rochdale                                                                       

Eliza Howarth 21                                                                           
John Howarth 26
 
                                                                                                     Harry Howarth 7 
                                                                                                     John R Howarth 9 
                                                                                                     Ada Howarth 1
                                                                                                   
James Howarth 34
 


                                                                         Birth John Robert Howarth Q4 1881 Rochdale  8e 19

[keyboard86]

Hi Jonathan and Aber, to answer both of you, the marriage of John stated he was 25 in 1889, so this family includes a John, which also includes Aber's James:-
1871 census
Jane Howarth 39
Robert 16
James 14
John 6
Residing at Manchester Road, Rochdale
Census ref RG10/4117/12/18
Keyboard86

[47813]

Hello,

This is a nice surprise. I hope we are related.
I don't know anything about John's family because as I say, his is a common name and on his marriage certifcate his father is simply given as 'Deceased'.

You say the John listed on your Grandfather Harry's death certifcate was a Green Grocer. You wonder if this could be my John. You may be right as in 1911 his job is given as 'Grocers Assistant'
Before this he is a 'Druggist'
This what family have said he was, nothing about Grocers but clearly he was in 1911.
He was an 'Iron Worker' in 1915 but I put this career change down to the War.

Also the same family has been put forward twice in this thread. Which in my eye strenghtens their case.

Gladly for us there are a John and a James of matching ages and my John's 'Deceased' statement at his marriage is explained by only a mother being present in the household back to John aged 6.

Do you have your Great-Grandfather James' marriage certifcate? - If so, are any members of that household on there?

John's marriage to Eliza is no help in that area as all the witnesses are from her side of the family.

I hope we can tie our Howarth's together.

Thank you

Jonathan

[aber]

Hi Jonathan

I am not quite certain of my facts at the moment but it would seem that yes we may be related. 

My grandfather was Harry Howarth, my great grandfather was James Howarth (born 1857).  James probably married Esther Travis (also born 1857) married at St Chad's Rochdale in 1880.  (They had three children all christened at St Chad's - John Robert born 1881, Harry born 1883, and Ada born 1890).  James had a younger brother John (born about 1865) and an older brother Robert born 1855.  I currently believe that my great great grandfather was also John.   Coincidences of the similar names seems to give strength to the ideas.  Harry had a brother John Robert both family names.  Please look at topic Harry Howarth, Rochdale.  James's brother may be your John.  Let me know of any further developments.

I don't have the marriage certificate for James but I do have the on line record.

Marriage: 11 Dec 1880 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
James Howarth - 24 Labourer Bachelor of Manchester Road
Esther Travis - 23 Spinster of Boundary street
    Groom's Father: John Howarth, Deceased
    Bride's Father: John Travis, Butcher
    Witness: Robert Howarth; Sarah Travis
    Married by Banns by: F. Parkin Wright Curate
    Register: Marriages 1876 - 1883, Page 149, Entry 298
    Source: LDS Film 1484386

Where did your John get married?  What details do you have of his marriage?  It would be interesting to think that my grandfather Harry possibly attended the marriage of your John


Thanks for your contact
Aber

[aber]

Hi Jonathan

I have just found a reference for the death below at interment.net (Rochdale).  this could possibly be your John, Harry's uncle.  Died 1942 aged 75 therefore born 1865. Possible? Likely?

Howarth, John, d. 9 Nov 1942, age: 75yr, h/of Eliza

Aber

[47813]

Hello, Aber

You can see most of the info from John's marriage at the top of the thread.
They married at All Saints in Hamer which is out towards the Littleborough side of Rochdale. Other rootschatters have suggested this is most probably Eliza's church. So that doesn't help us with John.
At that time (1889) it looks as far as I can make out he lives at 4 Arnold Street.
Who knows if Harry was at the wedding? - He would be aged 6, sadly too young to be a witness...

Two years later as you know they are in Wuerdle and Wardle district of Rochdale. Your Great-Grandfather James is also. I have no exact location however.
He is a Druggist's Assistant.

In 1901 he is living in Spotland area of Rochdale and is a Drug Store Manager. I thought I had an exact address but seem to have lost it.

In 1911 he is at 66 Littledale Street in Spotland area of Rochdale and as I said yesterday he was a Grocers Assistant.

I thought I might add some more details I have.
In 1911 - The family have two visitors in the shape of Ethel McLachlan, a married women of three years born in Rochdale and her son Eric McLachlan aged 3 who was born in Winnipeg, Canada.

Another point worth mentioning is that I have been told that women in the Howarth family had 'Bad Hearts'
I have edivence of this - Eliza, John's wife died aged 45 and one of their daughters died aged 33.
I think this is a medical condition passed down from Eliza's genes, because later generations of Howarth women don't have this issue.

I have seen the death record of John on interment before and i'm certain it is my John but there are two John Howarth's who die in same quarter at the same age, in the same area. So have always ruled out getting the death certifcate. Plus I have always thought that it couldn't tell me where he came from.

I have some photos of John and his family that I can send you if you like. I ask because its possible there could be a family resemble!

Thanks

Jonathan

PS - I'll PM you regarding the photos