Author Topic: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth  (Read 5431 times)

Offline Jojo

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« on: Friday 13 June 08 13:29 BST (UK) »
Hi there

Zachariah (or Zackariah) Ireland is listed as the deceased father on John Ireland's (and Mary Jane Quigley's) marriage certificate in 1880, in Walworth St John's.

There is a possible death in Wandsworth 1861, but I can't find any birth or marriage records.  There are some possibles in 41/51/61 census.  I think it likely that mistranscriptions have occured every step of the way here.  Very difficult with no info to go on.  So before I launch into soul-destroying checking:

Anyone miraculously have info on/interest in this man?

Cheers
J

Offline Jane Masri

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,275
  • My back garden
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #1 on: Friday 13 June 08 17:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Jojo, what is the age given for John on his marriage certificate? From this we might be able to track him & his parents on the census  ;)

jane
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Researching BRABY/BRAVERY in SURREY and SUSSEX

PLEASE use the look-up requests page not a personal message.

Offline Jojo

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 June 08 07:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Jane

Unfortunately it just says 'full age' on the certificate.
In 1881, he's 30.
In 1891, 40.
In 1901, 46.

I was searching the census for Johns with father Zac*, but it didn't turn anything up.  A fresh pair of eyes would be most welcome! 

J : )

Offline Jojo

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 June 08 07:39 BST (UK) »
Or rather I should say John with father Zac* did turn records up but nothing that was obviously the IRELANDS.  ;)


Offline Jane Masri

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,275
  • My back garden
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 June 08 08:41 BST (UK) »
Jojo, which one is he on the 1881 census?  I'd like to see where he says he was born,

jane
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Researching BRABY/BRAVERY in SURREY and SUSSEX

PLEASE use the look-up requests page not a personal message.

Offline Jojo

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 14 June 08 10:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Jane

Just to confuse things, he is enumerated as John Stanley on 1881 and 1891 and then Ireland again in 1901.  This is definitely an error as I have Ireland births at those addresses.  This is cutting a very long story short - it took me years to confirm it was the right family!

1881 RG11 Piece 549 Folio 32 Page 58
1891 RG12 Piece 362 Folio 86 Page 62
1901 RG13 Piece 512 Folio 62 Page 47

I have always felt that his Whitechapel in 1881 was a red herring, but I'm finding it hard to remember why.

I was so pleased when I got the certificate and saw Zachariah Ireland - I thought he'd be easy to find. How wrong I was!

Thanks
J

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 14 June 08 15:13 BST (UK) »
birthplace in 1891/1901 is Newington

1901
John Ireland age 46
wife Mary
children Olive 21
John 20
Martha 15
Albert 13
Ethel 6

1891
John Stanley 40
wife Mary
children Olive 12
John 10
Emily 8
Martha 5
Albert 3
Christopher 6mths
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Jane Masri

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,275
  • My back garden
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 14 June 08 15:34 BST (UK) »
Well, it certainly looks like the same family in the 1881, 1891 & 1901 censuses, but why would he call himself 'Stanley' in 1881 & 1891, then Ireland in 1901 but married in the name of Ireland in 1880  ::)  I think there's some deception going on  :o

I've been up & down the 1851, 1861 & 1871 censuses looking for John Stanley or John Ireland with no luck.  All I found was a very weird entry in 1861 at St. Peter, Walworth (RG9/339/47/1) a male by the name of Ireland (there could be a letter in front of the name) age 40, traveller absent, marital status unknown, place of birth unknown  :-\ a weird entry as someone has obviously guessed at the information (probably a lodging house) but why give the information if he didn't sleep in the house on census night & he's going to be duplicated somewhere else.  I thought as John was a hawker in 1891 this traveller might be significant.

It's a possibility that John was illegitimate & the father's name has been made up to save face.  Did it mention a proffession for his deceased father on his marriage cert?  I also had a look on the 1851 census for a Zachariah (all spellings) Ireland or Stanley & there were only 3.  Two of them too young & a Zacharias Ireland born 1801, Dutton, Cheshire & living in the same place.

This one's a hard nut to crack  :-\

jane
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Researching BRABY/BRAVERY in SURREY and SUSSEX

PLEASE use the look-up requests page not a personal message.

Offline Jojo

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: Zachariah IRELAND, Walworth/Wandsworth
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 14 June 08 21:17 BST (UK) »
Thanks for looking Jane.

I came up with the same as you - I saw the absent traveller in 1861 - very odd.

There was no occupation for the deceased father.

The only other thing I came up with was an Ireland family in Bermondsey with a John Ireland around the right age, father John Ireland but in later census returns the John Ireland Snr is listed as imbecile, feeble minded, etc. I wondered if John the younger was embarrassed and tried to distance himself. 

Yet there is that Zachariah Ireland death in Wandsworth which implies he should exist somewhere! 

Ah well it's reassuring to know that it's not me missing the obvious - thanks once again.

:)