Author Topic: ELSWORTH families in America  (Read 8581 times)

Offline whalespew

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 04 November 10 08:04 GMT (UK) »
Where was Josiah born?
Where did Josiah come from?
When did Josiah arrive in the New World?
Who were Josiah Elsworth’s parents?

It looks like you guys have done some research into these questions. So far, I have not been able to find any good answers myself. I have posted the results of my research to the following website. Let me know if you have any helpful / insightful information. Thanks.

http://www.mybrickwalls.org/html/josiah_elsworth.html

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Offline tickle

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 04 November 10 11:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi

The only thing I can suggest is a rigorous search of passenger lists. He must have arrived by sea so a passenger list and port of origin might give you clues. You might also have a look at ships records in Bristol, England, or Plymouth as likely ports of embarkation. I seem to remember that someone somewhere mentioned the west of England as a possible origin of your Elsworths. Mine (New York) originated in Bristol and went to Amsterdam. We have primary sources for all of that. However, I have not been able to do much in Bristol as yet and as it's a long time since I played with this mob, I'm not sure how much more of Bristol records has come online over the last few years. Good luck in your research, and if you would like to tackle it together with someone in the UK, buzz me back on here and I'll give you a direct address through your website.

Tickle
Alder - Berks
Benning/Bening -Tottenham, Middx, & Cambs
Brook - Suffolk/Cambs
Burton - Kent, Sussex, Hants
Ellington - Suffolk/Cambs
Elsworth - New York
Grasemann - Germany & London
Howels - Hants
Mitchell - Sussex, Surrey
Norman - Cambs
Oldham - Lancs
Petley - Suffolk
Raines - Co Cork, Ireland
Rysdyck - Netherlands, & New York State
Ryder - Cheshire/Lancs
Urmson - Cheshire
Webb - Cambs
West - Hants
Westley - Cambs
Woodham - Cambs, Beds, Essex
Wrixon - Co Cork, Ireland

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Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 04 November 10 12:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Whalespew

Welcome to Rootschat!]

I must stress that I have nothing to do with the Elsworth family, so am coming to this completely cold, with no preconceived ideas!

I would concentrate on Timberscombe, mainly because there was a well-to-do established Elsworth/y family there, whereas there are none at that time in Elsworth, Cambs, and Yorkshire is a big county. Whilst the parish register only starts in 1656 the Bishops Transcripts seem to go back earlier. I would check these BTs at your nearest LDS Family History Centre for a possible baptism of Josiah and for earlier marriages - Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1598-1678. FHL BRITISH Film 95273 

Whilst I mock member submissions on the IGI and Ancestral File entries, I always find it difficult to believe that someone has actually simply dreamed up a date, eg 7 Aug 1629 for Josiah. There MUST be something to back this up, notwithstanding the same date is applied to Timberscombe, Cambs and Yorks!

Your web page The Timberscombe Theory – perhaps I could add my two penn’orth.

I think Johane is Joanna/Joan, not John. See the first scan you show – John Farthing is the entry prior to Johane Elsworthy. I think the rest is English, not latin. The names look to be followed by “in town” and “in bond”. The two right hand columns are Roman numerals -  xx ie 20 L ie pounds, and iiij ie 4 L ie pounds. But I’d need to look at the whole document as I’m not totally convinced about the “L” and need to compare it with “s” and “d”

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
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            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline whalespew

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #12 on: Monday 08 November 10 06:35 GMT (UK) »
Tickle

I have looked through passenger lists without success, they seem to be fairly scarce. I have not looked through port of origin records, that would be a good avenue to pursue. Thanks.

David

You have a good point there regarding Johane = Joan, which is also how Banks interpreted it. I have changed the page to reflect your insight. The rest of those scans make a whole lot more sense now. I was thinking the in town/bond was Latin, and the roman numerals are a whole lot clearer as well now that you have pointed them out. Thanks for the insight and the pointer on the microfilm

Offline johnxyz

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 01 December 10 09:55 GMT (UK) »
You might like to look at http://personal.linkline.com/xymox/fraud/fraud.htm, though Elsworth does not appear to be one of the known frauds.

For my line, there is a marriage at Kenilworth in 1628, but the extant registers only run from 1630.

John

Offline tickle

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 01 December 10 10:26 GMT (UK) »
Anjou probably didn't need to mess about with the Elsworths as German Elsworth had already made a fine hash of them anyway!
Alder - Berks
Benning/Bening -Tottenham, Middx, & Cambs
Brook - Suffolk/Cambs
Burton - Kent, Sussex, Hants
Ellington - Suffolk/Cambs
Elsworth - New York
Grasemann - Germany & London
Howels - Hants
Mitchell - Sussex, Surrey
Norman - Cambs
Oldham - Lancs
Petley - Suffolk
Raines - Co Cork, Ireland
Rysdyck - Netherlands, & New York State
Ryder - Cheshire/Lancs
Urmson - Cheshire
Webb - Cambs
West - Hants
Westley - Cambs
Woodham - Cambs, Beds, Essex
Wrixon - Co Cork, Ireland

Offline johnxyz

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 01 December 10 16:26 GMT (UK) »
Looking at whalespew's site, the implication is that German Ellsworth was active in the early 1900s. That could well be contemporaneous with Anjou (his dates are 1863 - 1942). I have a print of one of Anjou's genealogies, and the Ellsworth typescript has a style that is reminiscent of Anjou. The most striking, though it may only be coincidental, is the use of Roman numbers for the main names and arabic for the children. 

Anjou is known to have invented data and places. If I were a gambling man, I'd put money on there being an Anjou typescript behind all this, later retyped by German.

John

Offline tickle

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 02 December 10 08:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi John

Sounds as though that might be a distinct possibility, but some of German's conclusions, especialyy the way he conveniently puts the three 'brothers' together initially,  are even too far fetched for a purportedly 'serious' genealogist to have come up with. I haven't looked at German's work for some time, but I seem to remember being flabbergasted that anyone could take him seriously, although I was in touch with an Ellsworth family member a year of two ago who thought he was gospel! Amazing. It would be interesting to know whether German's 'work' was based on Anjou or vice versa, so if you can nail it we could throw German to the wolves with every justification.

Take care, and thanks for your interest.

Tickle
Alder - Berks
Benning/Bening -Tottenham, Middx, & Cambs
Brook - Suffolk/Cambs
Burton - Kent, Sussex, Hants
Ellington - Suffolk/Cambs
Elsworth - New York
Grasemann - Germany & London
Howels - Hants
Mitchell - Sussex, Surrey
Norman - Cambs
Oldham - Lancs
Petley - Suffolk
Raines - Co Cork, Ireland
Rysdyck - Netherlands, & New York State
Ryder - Cheshire/Lancs
Urmson - Cheshire
Webb - Cambs
West - Hants
Westley - Cambs
Woodham - Cambs, Beds, Essex
Wrixon - Co Cork, Ireland

Offline johnxyz

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Re: ELSWORTH families in America
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 02 December 10 11:34 GMT (UK) »
I have a print, taken from the LDS microfilm, of "History of the Copley family of England, with ancestry of Thomas Copley of Shelbrook (properly Skelbrook )  and Northampton, Mass". It starts with what is regarded as a classic Anjou pre-amble: the derivation of the name, some early recorded uses of the name, and the family coat of arms.

http://www.aylesworth.net/Confidence_family_DWT_CSS/ellsworth_family_notes.htm has in paragraphs 3-6 a remarkably similar sequence. It's not definitive, but to me it's another indicator that Anjou might be linked to all this.

To be fair to the LDS, their author catalogue does now indicate that Anjou's workis suspect.