Northiam Parish Records-TREE

[CRTAussie]

Hi Judy,

I am trying to trace the parents of both Griffess Tree and his wife Elizabeth Tree, who migrated to Australia and landed in Sydney on the Duchess of Northumberland, 22 April 1838.

I do not believe that I met you in LCPL 20 decades ago, especially as I'm not even sure what LCPL stands for.

Regards,

Colin

[CRTAussie]

Hi again Judy,

Please see the attachment from where Griffess & Elizabeth Tree arrived in Sydney on the Duchess of Northumberland on 22 April 1838.

Regards,

Colin

[judt]

Hi Colin

Griffess' death certificate lists his mother as Elizabeth Ashdown.  As mentioned elsewhere in this blog, Elizabeth Ashdown married William Tree in 1792 in Woodchurch, Tenterden, Kent.  This is very close to Northiam, so I think it's highly likely that these were the parents of Griffess Tree(s).  By the time Griffess was born in 1808 the couple had 6 children.  I have not been able to find a baptism for Griffess, but can think of numerous scenarios for the omission.  William died in 1812 and could have been ill for some time, making it difficult for Elizabeth to organise a baptism for Griffess being one possibility.

Tracking down Elizabeth King's parents I found a bit trickier.  I had quite some help for this from TimAussie, who I think you have also tried to contact.  FamilySearch lists a baptism for Elizabeth King son of James and 'Mary' King in Rye, 24 Feb 1811.  Tim had gone through the films at an LDS library and thought the 'Mary' was a mistake, and that it should have been Sarah.  Looking at the children on James and Sarah it fits, particularly as the witnesses to the marriage of Griffess and Elizabeth were Daniel Tree, Maria King, Martha King, Mary Tree and Frederick King.  James and Sarah had daughters Maria and Mary, and James had a brother Frederick who was nearly 20 years his junior. 

Elizabeth King's brother, James Kelsey King, also came out to Australia, in 1939, and died in Sydney in 1893.

I tried to contact TimAussie some time ago without success.  He may have changed his email address or just stopped researching.  Would be interested to know if you have any response from him.


Regards

Judy

[nellesayshi]

Hi Judy and Colin
Just letting you know that I am eavesdropping on your conversation as I have been following this thread for a while as Daniel Tree was my Great Great Grandfather.  I have access to the Sussex online birth and death database, and have just received the marriage disc though I have not yet had time to look at it. 
I am hoping to find the common ancestor for our two lines of the family.
Its interesting to note that your Griffiths is noted as a shoemaker, as is my Daniel.  My Daniel's father was a saddler, but died when my Daniel was still a toddler, with his mother not long after that.  Makes me wonder who raised my Daniel.  Would love to find some census entries from that time.
Nelle

[sillgen]

The first major census is 1841.  There are isolated earlier census records for some places but not many.  Before that you have to rely on church records.
The only marriage for Daniel Tree on the SMI is the 1803 one in Northiam to Mary Boots which has been mentioned before.

[nellesayshi]

Thanks Sillgen

That marriage won't be for my Daniel as he would have only been a small boy at the time!  I will spend some time poking around and hopefully find out more on his parents and grandparents with related siblings.  Its just going to take time, but no surprises there.

I have his parents as William Tree (1744-1896) and Martha French (1752-1799), and William's Father was another William (1710-1786) married to Mary Attison ( - 1793).  Thats about it for what I have on them so far, but have not seriously tried to reconstruct their extended families to understand the links yet.

I am going to Sussex later this year so may also try my luck at the Hastings Family History Centre and will also have a wander around the churches.  Not very efficient, but its a holiday so thats ok.

Nelle

[judt]

Hi Nelle

I've done a rough chart of how I think your Daniel Tree is related to Griffess Tree, which I hope is attached to this post.  They were 2nd cousins once removed (I think).

Northiam is VERY close to the Kent border, so a lot of the family events happened over the border.  If you can get to the new Records Office in Brighton you might find out more for the Sussex events, but you need to go to Maidstone for the Kent records.  I would be interested to know whether you find much relevant info at the HRFHS - I can't find much info on their website regarding their catalogue.  How long are you going to be in Hastings?  It's about 1.25 hours by train to Brighton and 1.5 hours by train to Maidstone.

Did you realise that FamilySearch has some Northiam bishop's transcripts images online that can be viewed for free?  I've only recently discovered this.   You just need to create an account and log in to see them.  Some Kent records are also viewable on the FamilySearch website, but I think this may need to be done from an LDS library.  Copyright varies from county to county.

Your comments about your Daniel had me confused, but I assume you mean that William Tree (b 1744) and Martha Tree (nee French) died around 1800.  Your Daniel could have been brought up by William Tree and Elizabeth Ashdown, as they had a young family at the same time.  This would explain why Daniel was a witness to Griffess and Elizabeth Tree's marriage.  Would be interested in the details of this family for my database.  Have you obtained this info from the 'Sussex online birth and death database'?  Was this created by the Sussex family history society?  Have you found any entries for children on Daniel Tree before his migration to Australia? 


Regards
 
Judy

[nellesayshi]

Thank you very much Judy, this is interesting and will give me a structure when I get my head back into the database!

Sadly I am only in Hastings for 5 days, with one of these planned for a hire car and a visit to Northiam, Brede and the HRFHS so won't have time for Brighton or Maidstone.

I did not know FamilySearch had that additional information so I will certainly look for that.  I did find a lovely little scan of a church ledger on findmypast.com.au with the details of the Marriage Banns called for Daniel Tree and Mary Hodges, that helped to clear up two different marriage dates in two different locations that I found on a different ledger.

You did correctly interpret my comments about the 1800 deaths of William Tree and Martha French.  I was wondering as well whether Daniel may have been raised with Griffiths, especially as one of his sons, my Great Grandfather was baptised Robert Griffiths Tree.  The fact that they were both shoemakers also makes me wonder if this may have been a family trade.

I have details of births of children to both William Tree/Elizabeth Ashdown and also William Tree/Martha French that I did source from the Sussex Family History Society.  Griffiths does not appear in either as previously noted.  Was it one of these families that you wanted the details for?  I also have details of Daniel Tree's subsequent marriages and children in Australia.

I also have a list of children for Daniel Tree (1774-1840) and Mary Boots.  This is not my Daniel, and I don't quite know where he fits in as I have not started on that generation yet.

Nelle

[nellesayshi]

A quick update on this, have just checked the Sussex Family History Society Database and can confirm the following:

William Tree with wife Mary (no maiden name listed, but I presume Attison) had the following children baptised in Brede:

Mary - 8 May 1737
John - 4 February 1738/39
Sarah - 16 August 1741 (buried 19 Sept 1742)
Daniel - 16 August 1747
William - 24 June 1744

John had a baby son John baptised 21 November 1769, buried 26 November 1769, also in Brede.  In Ewhurst with wife Mary he further had a son William baptised 5 July 1772 and son Daniel baptised 14 August 1774.  This is the Daniel that married Mary Boots and is not my Daniel as the dates don't come anywhere close to matching.

William born 1744 (brother to John) is the one who married Martha French and had son Daniel who migrated to Australia.

So yes Judy, you were absolutely spot on with your theory about the relationship between Daniel and Griffiths!

I have hit a bit of a wall with our William (father of John and William) born around 1700 though.  Do you have any idea who his parents may be?  I can't find a birth or baptism record for him.

Regards

Nelle