Author Topic: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden  (Read 16485 times)

Offline paulawilder1

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Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« on: Sunday 03 August 08 10:57 BST (UK) »
I'd like birth or baptism information  for Elizabeth Higginson, born abt 1843 in Hopes Place, as well as for Ann "Higginson" b. 1777 in Eccleston, and Hannah "Higginson" (born Hopes Place 1799)

I've traced my Higginson ancestors back to Hopes Place -- my great great great great aunt (not sure how many greats) Elizabeth Higginson was born about 1843 to Mary Higginson (b. 1819 in "Boughton" -- could be Broughton? or "Great Boughton")  and Richard Higginson (b. 1819) ("Railway Engine Driver") from "Cheshire".  The record says their eldest daughter, Elizabeth  ("dressmaker") was born in abt 1843 in Hopes Place, Flintshire, Wales, while her brother Samuel was born in 1845 in Christleton (not far away). 

I found the Wales 1841 Census places a "20" year old Richard Higginson ("farm labourer")  in Hopes Place, with a "60" year-old Ann Higginson  ("farmer") (b. 1777), along with a 14 year old John Jones ("farm laborer" so the farm seems to belong to Ann Higginson) (but is she  mother of Richard, or  a grandmother? And who is John Jones?).

  Ten years later -- Ann Higginson, now "74" is still in Hopes Place, listed as "visitor" and "mother-in-law"  and the rest of the inhabitants are Jones's. The head of the family is listed as Samuel Jones, and his wife, Elizabeth (a different Elizabeth) is presumably Ann Higginson's daughter.  John Jones (now 24) shows up at head of the farm right next door, "Copse farm" or "Cofre farm", it says he was born in Dodleston.

There is also a Hannah Higginson, married to a (different) Richard Higginson showing up on the 1871 census in Bretton Village, very close to Hopes Place, whose birth entry says she was born at Hopes Place (about 1799).

I'd love to know who Hannah Higginson's parents were as well, it might clear up the relationships up.


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Offline JeannieR

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 06 August 08 14:21 BST (UK) »
Hi There......

I cannot find the baptism for RICHARD HIGGINSON born c1819, but I have found the baptism of a ELIZABETH HIGGINSON born 26th April 1820, and baptised 19th May 1820. Her parents were RICHARD and HANNAH nee MITCHELL.....

Richard is described as a farmer, from Bretton Hall. These are the only Higginsons in the Parish Registers (Baptisms) 1811-1820.

Hannah Mitchell was baptised 2nd June 1800 Father Peter and mother Hannah nee Reynolds . Peter was a farmer from Broughton

I am afraid I cannot help with later baptisms

Not sure if this helps or not !!

Regards

JeannieR
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Offline paulawilder1

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 06 August 08 15:19 BST (UK) »
Dear Jeannie, thank you so much for responding, that is very interesting indeed, I'm not sure quite how it fits it, but it must fit in somehow! Hahah.  Thank you so much.

Offline JeannieR

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 06 August 08 17:16 BST (UK) »
Paula.....

Have you considered that Ann/ Hannah Higginson, are one in the same person ?

One of my ancestors was Hannah, but in a couple of census she was Ann.
Also, The 1841 census is notorius for getting peoples ages wrong. Adults over 15, mostly had there ages rounded up or down by five years sometimes more.

Did your Higginson family move to West Derby ? ,on the 1851 census, there is a Samuel Jones who is a 19 year old lodger living with the family.

I have also found a marriage for a Richard Higginson to a Mary Ann Duggin, which took place in Liverpool / registered Sept qtr 1841 / vol 20 page 178

Regards

Jeannie
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Offline paulawilder1

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 06 August 08 19:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Jeannie -- that marriage could possibly give me a clue! How were you able to get that info? Always when I look up marriages in those books it tells me that such and such name was married, but not who they got married to!  The date is good, they need to be married before 1843 when their first child (Elisabeth) is born. 

Yes, they did move to West Derby, that is the family. The Samuel Jones living with them on the 1851 England census is definitely some kind of clue, part of what got me going on this whole Jones theory. I think he is Ann Higginson's grandson, and could have moved with his Uncle Richard and family to Liverpool.  Also there is a Betsy Higginson living next door. (but she is from Cumbeland...)

Meanwhile, I have considered that Ann and Hannah could be the same person, but they are both listed on the 1841 census -- it is even more clear in 1851 they are different - the 1851 Wales census shows Hannah Higginson age 50 living with husband Richard Higginson in Bretton Village, meanwhile  Ann Higginson, 74, Widow" lives with her daughter Elisabeth, and son-in-law Samuel Jones 47 fr. Saltney, and all their children.   The older Ann could be Hannah's mother in law, or... even sister in law -- Hanna's husband Richard and Ann both came from "Eccleston" -- or perhaps Higginsons married Higginson and they are all cousins...  since  Hannah was born at Hopes Place. 

But... what is Hopes Place? I was assuming it was the name of one farm, and one family -- it is still there - on Google I can see it. Boy I sure would love to be able to fly to Wales right now and go poking my head about!

Oy, my head hurts!

Offline JeannieR

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 09 August 08 12:29 BST (UK) »
Hi Paula.....

Sorry that I haven't contacted you sooner. Housework really hampers everything

 First of all, I think the marriage I gave you for Richard Higginson to Mary Ann Duggin, is incorrect . Mary Higginson never uses Ann, as part of her christian name. I found Mary Ann Duggin, on the 1841 census , living at Bolton le Moor.
There was no mention of the name, at all in Flintshire.

However, I found the marriage of Richard Higginson to MARY PRICE, which took place at the Church of Our Lady and St Nicholas and St Ann. It was Registered in the March quarter of 1842 at Liverpool in volume 20 page 212. I am sure that this is the correct marriage. If you do obtain the marriage certificate, it will give both fathers names, there occupations, and their abode. There were usually two witnesses, which may be siblings.......

The marriage of SAMUEL JONES and ELIZABETH HIGGINSON took place at Hawarden May 5th 1824 This confirms that she was Ann's daughter. However, I cannot find any baptism for her, and I have the Parish records (most) upto 1820. I do not think this lady, could be your Richard's sister. The age difference is too great..........

These are the other HIGGINSON baptism's just in case they become useful.


James BAYLEY Higginson. Base born son of Joseph Higginson of Bretton Hall, and Esther BAYLEY. born August 29th 1808, baptised September 16th 1808

John EVANS Higginson.  Base born son of John Higginson of Bretton , and Susannah EVANS . born February 24th 1808, baptised February 28th 1808

William EVANS Higginson. Base born son of John Higginson of Bretton , and Susannah Evans. Born July 26th 1809, baptised August 13th 1809.

If you can bear with me about a week, I shall send for some later Parish Records, and see if I can find any thing more for you. I need then any way.

I think that if you send for Elizabeth's birth certificate, (1843) it will confirm to you her mothers maiden name, and then you can obtain her parents marriage certificate. It will be money well spent.

Kind Regards

Jeannie

PS. Try this site, if your family lived in Liverpool, you will find it very useful, and it is free. You will find Samuel's marriage to Rachel on it.

www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
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Offline paulawilder1

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 09 August 08 20:05 BST (UK) »
Oh Jeannie, I can't thank you enough. I'm thrilled to have this information!! Thank you!

Offline paulawilder1

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 09 August 08 22:34 BST (UK) »
P.S. Thank you again for the link to the Liverpool record site. I found something so interesting and shocking on that site! I discovered that my great Grandmother Rachel Boote Cowdell (née Higginson) had actually been married before! Her 1901 marriage record to Edward Cowdell showed her as Rachel B. Croker (I'd never heard the name Croker!) -- well a bit more searching and I found a marriage record of Rachel B. Higginson to James M. Croker. (We knew she had a secret, but we never knew what it was, I think this was it!)

Offline JeannieR

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Re: Higginsons of Hopes Place, Bretton, Hawarden
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 12 August 08 12:48 BST (UK) »
Paula.....

Pleased to have been able to help.......

Don't know how long you have been researching your family tree, but I must warn you, that it is addictive !!

Thought I would let you know, that I should receive the Parish registers I have ordered, perhaps early next week. Baptisms 1821-1830, and marriages and burials 1811-1820, so there should be some signs of your Higginson's. Will let you know, as soon as I can.......

Regards
Jeannie
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