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Author Topic: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk to Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN  (Read 18674 times)

Offline bendywendy

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk to Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 25 August 09 16:44 BST (UK) »
1851 Census
 Looks likely this is Caroline Tungate who married Robert Ainger Howman.

Head: TUNGATE, James         Neighbors     166297
Name   Relationship   Mar   Age    Sex   Occupation    Birthplace

James  TUNGATE   Head   M   42   M   Coal Porter Witton-Norfolk
Charlotte  TUNGATE   Wife   M   42   F   ---   Strumpshaw-Norfolk
Benjamin  TUNGATE   Son   -   14   M   Scholar   Bradistone-Norfolk
George  TUNGATE   Son   -   12   M   Scholar   Strumpshaw-Norfolk
Caroline  TUNGATE   Daur   -   9   F   ---   Strumpshaw-Norfolk
Charlotte  TUNGATE   Daur   -   7   F   ---   Strumpshaw-Norfolk
James  TUNGATE   Son   -   3   M   ---   East Dereham-Norfolk

   Address:   Rayner's Yard, Norwich
   Census Place:   Norwich St Julian Norwich, Norfolk
   PRO Reference:   HO/107/1814   Folio:   246   Page:   28   FHL Film:   0207467


HALL     REEPHAM, HACKFORD, GUESTWICK, NFK
HALL     YORK, HOLME ON SPALDING MOOR, E. YKS
HALL     BELBY, Nr HOWDEN, E. YKS
HOUFE   YORK, RICCALL, THIRSK, DURHAM, LANCASHIRE
FEATHERSTONE     KNEDLINGTON, GILBERDYKE, E. YKS
CLAYTON   PATRINGTON, KEYINGHAM, STADDLETHORPE, E. YKS
CAWOOD   RAWCLIFFE, STADDLETHORPE
WALKER     HADDELSEY, EASTRINGTON, SHIPTONTHORPE, E. YKS
BEAN         STILLINGFLEET, ULLESKELF, KIRKBY WHARFE, YKS
TAYLES     LINCS.

Offline bendywendy

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk to Yorkshire
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 25 August 09 16:52 BST (UK) »
1851 Census
Looks likely this is the Widowed wife Lydia of Peter Howman (married 1793), most likely Mary (Head) is dau in law, also Widow. Both Paupers  :(

Head: HOWMAN, Mary         Neighbors     205106
Name   Relationship   Mar   Age    Sex   Occupation    Birthplace

Mary  HOWMAN   Head   W   39   F   Pauper   Rudham-Nfk
Harriot  HOWMAN   Daur   U   19   F   House Servant  Gt Ryburgh-Nfk
Charlotte  HOWMAN   Daur   U   14   F   House Servant  Gt Ryburgh-Nfk
Elizebeth  HOWMAN   Daur   U   12   F   Scholar   Thursford-Nfk
Lydia  HOWMAN   Daur   -   10   F   Scholar   Gt Ryburgh-Nfk
Robert  HOWMAN   Son   -   8   M   Scholar   Gt Ryburgh-Nfk
William  HOWMAN   Son   -   4   M   Scholar   Gt Ryburgh-Nfk
Henry  HOWMAN   Son   -   2   M   ---   Gt Ryburgh-Nfk
Lydia  HOWMAN   ---   W   76   F   Pauper   Gt Ryburgh-Nfk

   Address:   ---, Walsingham
   Census Place:   Great Ryburgh Walsingham, Norfolk
   PRO Reference:   HO/107/1826   Folio:   196   Page:   21   FHL Film:   0207480
HALL     REEPHAM, HACKFORD, GUESTWICK, NFK
HALL     YORK, HOLME ON SPALDING MOOR, E. YKS
HALL     BELBY, Nr HOWDEN, E. YKS
HOUFE   YORK, RICCALL, THIRSK, DURHAM, LANCASHIRE
FEATHERSTONE     KNEDLINGTON, GILBERDYKE, E. YKS
CLAYTON   PATRINGTON, KEYINGHAM, STADDLETHORPE, E. YKS
CAWOOD   RAWCLIFFE, STADDLETHORPE
WALKER     HADDELSEY, EASTRINGTON, SHIPTONTHORPE, E. YKS
BEAN         STILLINGFLEET, ULLESKELF, KIRKBY WHARFE, YKS
TAYLES     LINCS.


Offline rheme

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk t o Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 25 August 09 22:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Bendywendy

Firstly can I say a great big thank you for all the help you have given.  It is very much appreciated.

The names within the family are being repeated within the different generations and the two sons of Robert Ainger Howman born in Hull – Joseph and George are actual sons and not his brothers.  Robert A. did have a brother called Joseph (b. 1839).  However, all Joseph’s (b. 1877) grandchildren are still alive - one of which is my dad and another is my uncle who is helping me with this.  I am told that at one point he (Joseph) worked on Drypool Bridge and also that whilst away at war was gassed (mustard).  I believe he returned from the war, however, died before his time due to the effects of this. 

Thank you for your guidance re double checking information and not just accepting it at face value as I can understand how it would be so easy for me to get it wrong. 

Joseph married Arabella Buttery from Rillington at St. Marks, Hull in 1905 and George married Louisa Brook at St. Stephens, Hull in 1895.

I have pulled some extracts from publications regarding the farm workers and why/how they migrated to other areas.  I hope this puts some meat on the bones for you.

Extracts from Cambridgeshire History – Agriculture and the Labourer

Labourers were in a weak bargaining position due to over-population from which Norfolk was suffering.  Wages were usually low and not infrequently paid in the form of goods or food, or the labourer was allowed a small plot of land to raise vegetables and perhaps keep a pig or two.

1820’s and 1830's were a time of low wages within the area because the woollen industry was in a state of rapid decline as the great textile areas of northern England flourished.  With alternative employment not readily available, it led to an excess of agricultural workers.

By 1815 the end of the great wars meant many ex-soldiers were unemployed.  Grain prices fell and farmers lowered wages.  Speculators erected rows of poor cottages and charged exorbitant rents because of the housing shortage.

As the Industrial Revolution hit and mechanisation crept in it was necessary for these workers to seek alternative employment.  Migration was at its highest from the mid to the end of the 19th Century.  Land grants in America were very attractive and travel to Australia was almost ‘free’ and the wages in foreign lands were vastly improved to England. 

Within England itself a further lure was to the new, industrial areas of the Midlands, North West and Yorkshire.  Whole families packed up and left for a new life in these areas.  There are examples of agents representing the cotton interests of the North actively negotiating with Parish officials to arrange for workers to be shipped to the mill towns which then took them off parish relief.  These journeys were made possible by an improved railway network, the push of desperate conditions for the poor and the pull of regular work in the North.

Extract from:  A History of Kingston Upon Hull from Bulmer’s Gazetteer (1892)

The Kingston Cotton Mill Co. Ltd., had large works in Cumberland Street.  The principle building was a lofty red brick structure, 501 ft. long, 80 ft. wide and five stories high.  The chimney was originally 245 high.  The diameter inside its base 19ft.  When these mills were in full operation, it required about 2,300 tons of raw cotton and about 7,800 tons of coal to keep them going.

This mill’s location was only a short walk from where my relatives where living (Howard’s Row off Chapman Street).  It is likely, therefore, putting information from the two extracts together that the mill owners agents paid/negotiated the costs of moving them to Hull to take them off parish relief and provide them with work.

I hope this helps you understand how possibly your GG Grandfather Robert Hall moved into the area.

Once again thanks for all your help - you've been an absolute star.

Offline bendywendy

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk t o Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 25 August 09 23:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Rheme
So glad to have been of help.
If you would like anymore 1851 census info for Howman etc., let me know I have a CD of Norfolk.
Thanks for the info on migrant workers, I wonder if my Robert Hall actually came to Hull first then moved on when he had some money in his pocket?? I will never know.
Did you know that a lot of barges from Hull ran down to Norfolk taking and bringing cargoes as well as human cargo.
Good luck with your journey, shout if you get stuck, if I cannot help you, others will.
Bendywendy
HALL     REEPHAM, HACKFORD, GUESTWICK, NFK
HALL     YORK, HOLME ON SPALDING MOOR, E. YKS
HALL     BELBY, Nr HOWDEN, E. YKS
HOUFE   YORK, RICCALL, THIRSK, DURHAM, LANCASHIRE
FEATHERSTONE     KNEDLINGTON, GILBERDYKE, E. YKS
CLAYTON   PATRINGTON, KEYINGHAM, STADDLETHORPE, E. YKS
CAWOOD   RAWCLIFFE, STADDLETHORPE
WALKER     HADDELSEY, EASTRINGTON, SHIPTONTHORPE, E. YKS
BEAN         STILLINGFLEET, ULLESKELF, KIRKBY WHARFE, YKS
TAYLES     LINCS.

Offline bendywendy

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk t o Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 26 August 09 09:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Rheme
Not sure of your original posting if you have a death date for Caroline Howman nee Tungate.
Have you found her anywhere on the 1871 census??
Found this Death on Freebmd
Caroline Howman  aged 37  Sculcoates  Dec Q 1879
If this is your Caroline Tungate who married Robert Ainger Howman than it looks likely she is the mother to George 1875 and Joseph 1877. I suggest you purchase either/all the certificates. Hopefully the Death Cert might have her husbands name on and cause of death and address. The Birth Cert hopefully will have both parents names and address.

SCULCOATES REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Yorkshire East Riding.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.4.1937 (succeeded by Hull and Holderness districts).
Sub-districts : Cottingham; Drypool; East Sculcoates; Ferriby; Hedon; Hessle; Newland; Southcoates; Sutton; West Sculcoates.
GRO volumes : XXII (1837-51); 9d (1852-1937).

Anlaby ERY From 1837 to 1935 after 1935 see Kingston upon Hull (in Hull district); Sculcoates;  Haltemprice
Cottingham ERY From 1837 to 1894 after 1894 see Cottingham Within; Cottingham Without
Cottingham ER from 1898 to 1935 before 1898 see Cottingham Without / after 1935 see Kingston upon Hull (in Hull district); Sculcoates; Haltemprice
Cottingham Within ERY from 1894 to 1898 before 1894 see Cottingham / after 1898 see Sculcoates
Cottingham Without ERY from 1894 to 1898 before 1894 see Cottingham / after 1898 see Cottingham
Drypool ERY from 1837 to 1898 after 1898 see Sculcoates
Garrison Side ERY from 1837 to 1898 after 1898 see Sculcoates
Haltemprice ERY from 1837 to 1937
Hedon ERY from 1837 to 1937
Hessle ERY from 1837 to 1894 after 1894 see Hessle Within; Hessle Without
Hessle ERY from 1899 to 1935 before 1899 see Hessle Without / after 1935 see Haltemprice
Hessle Within ERY from 1894 to 1898 before 1894 see Hessle / after 1898 see Sculcoates
Hessle Withour ERY from 1894 to 1898 before 1894 see Hessle / after 1898 see Hessle
Kirk Ella ERY from 1837 to 1935 after 1935 see Skidby (in Beverley district), Kingston upon Hull (in Hull district); Sculcoates; Haltemprice
Marfleet ERY from 1837 to 1898 after 1898 see Sculcoates
Melton ERY from 1837to 1935 after 1935 see Welton
Newington ERY from 1877 to 1898 before 1877 see Swanland / after 1898 see Sculcoates
North Ferriby ERY from 1837 to 1937
Preston ERY from 1837 to 1937
Sculcoates ERY from 1837 to 1937
Southcoates ERY from 1837 to 1898 after 1898 see Sculcoates
Sutton & Stoneferry ERY from 1837 to 1894 after 1894 see Sutton Within; Sutton Without
Sutton on Hull ERY from 1898to 1935 before 1898 see Sutton Without / after 1935 see Kingston upon Hull (in Hull district); Sculcoates
Sutton Within ERY from 1894 to 1898 before 1894 see Sutton and Stoneferry / after 1898 see Sculcoates
Sutton Without ERY from 1894 to 1898 before 1894 see Sutton and Stoneferry / after 1898 see Sutton on Hull
Swanland ERY from 1837 to 1937
Wauldby ERY from 1837to 1935 after 1935 see Welton
Welton ERY from 1837 to 1937
West Ella ERY from 1837 to 1935 after 1935 see Haltemprice
Willerby ERY from 1837 to 1935 after 1935 see Kingston upon Hull (in Hull district); Sculcoates, Haltemprice; Skidby (in Beverley district)
 
Registers now divided between Hull and East Riding of Yorkshire districts.

HALL     REEPHAM, HACKFORD, GUESTWICK, NFK
HALL     YORK, HOLME ON SPALDING MOOR, E. YKS
HALL     BELBY, Nr HOWDEN, E. YKS
HOUFE   YORK, RICCALL, THIRSK, DURHAM, LANCASHIRE
FEATHERSTONE     KNEDLINGTON, GILBERDYKE, E. YKS
CLAYTON   PATRINGTON, KEYINGHAM, STADDLETHORPE, E. YKS
CAWOOD   RAWCLIFFE, STADDLETHORPE
WALKER     HADDELSEY, EASTRINGTON, SHIPTONTHORPE, E. YKS
BEAN         STILLINGFLEET, ULLESKELF, KIRKBY WHARFE, YKS
TAYLES     LINCS.

Offline bendywendy

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk t o Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 26 August 09 09:46 BST (UK) »
1861 census   
http://www.1901censusonline.com/census.aspwci=results&searchtype=13&searchsubtype=1
These could be your Howman lot, moving on 10 years from 1851 census ages do match up
CAROLINE HOWMAN 20 Fakenham, Walsingham  Married 1857
ROBERT HOWMAN 25 Fakenham, Walsingham   
LEAH HOWMAN 18 Fakenham, Walsingham

On 1851 cen Robert Ainger Howman had a sister Caroline aged 27 so the above Caroline must be wife to Robert Ainger Howman. He also had a sister Leah aged 9 on 1851 cen.

1871 census
http://www.1901censusonline.com/census.aspwci=results&searchtype=14&searchsubtype=1
CAROLINE HOWMAN 29 Walsingham, Fakenham  The only one found nationally.
HALL     REEPHAM, HACKFORD, GUESTWICK, NFK
HALL     YORK, HOLME ON SPALDING MOOR, E. YKS
HALL     BELBY, Nr HOWDEN, E. YKS
HOUFE   YORK, RICCALL, THIRSK, DURHAM, LANCASHIRE
FEATHERSTONE     KNEDLINGTON, GILBERDYKE, E. YKS
CLAYTON   PATRINGTON, KEYINGHAM, STADDLETHORPE, E. YKS
CAWOOD   RAWCLIFFE, STADDLETHORPE
WALKER     HADDELSEY, EASTRINGTON, SHIPTONTHORPE, E. YKS
BEAN         STILLINGFLEET, ULLESKELF, KIRKBY WHARFE, YKS
TAYLES     LINCS.

Offline rheme

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk t o Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 26 August 09 23:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Bendywendy

I can't believe what you have found.  I had found a death date for Caroline and had not yet had chance to check it out - will certainly do that now.  I also found (if I remember correctly) information relating to another child for Robert Howman that was not Caroline's and born in Great Ryburgh.  Have to check that out also.  Caroline just seemed to disappear from the Census information at all the addresses that Robert A. Howman was at from a particular date and going forward..  Might be that if he did have an affair resulting in a child she may have upped and gone.

Would be interesting if Caroline was in Hull as up to now I haven't been able to find any evidence of that.
Will certainly check up on what you have given me and come back to you.

Robert Ainger Howman had the following siblings - Caroline (b. 1824), Honour (b. 1828), Joseph (b. 1839) and Leah (b. 1842).  Robert died in 1912 (Sculcoates, Hull).

I have tracked The Howmans back to Peter Howman (circa 1770) and his wife Lydia Ainger (circa 1772).  Lydia's parents were Frances Ainger (1748 - 1812) and Margaret Meek (circa 1750).

I cannot check my census information or other at the moment as I was dying in all the paperwork at home so took it all to work with me this morning, put it into some sort of order and filed it (during my lunch of course) then forgot to bring it home with me.

Will have a good look at it all tomorrow.

Once again thanks for all your help.

Regards
rheme

Offline bendywendy

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk t o Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 27 August 09 07:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Rheme
I did think that RA Howman possibly was lying in the wrong bed.  ???

Caroline would only have left her husband if she had some regular income for herself and the children, the Parish would only have helped her if she qualified for the Parish Poor Relief and even that would not have been much, nor would it have been "long giving", her husband could have been made to provided for her and her children by the Parish Oversear's, he risked being jailed if he didn't provide, now this could be why he "upped and left" Norfolk to Hull with some of the children, would these children have been over the age 10 for working purposes?? He could have abandoned Caroline.

Ask your sisters to check the records in Norwich for the area Caroline lived in, to see if there is any Parish Records for Poor Relief being paid to her.

Divorce was expensive and the ordinary everyday folk could not afford this option, but it did not stop folk from "upping and leaving" to go elsewhere or to live with someone else.

Look for a Settlement Certificate or Removal Orders for their names in Norfolk and Hull.
I will find the Norwich Records Office website address for you, a fantastic site with a wealth of information. You might find the family listed for various reasons.
Going out for the day to Pickering to meet up with distant rellys of the Featherstone clan and to see the steam trains.
HALL     REEPHAM, HACKFORD, GUESTWICK, NFK
HALL     YORK, HOLME ON SPALDING MOOR, E. YKS
HALL     BELBY, Nr HOWDEN, E. YKS
HOUFE   YORK, RICCALL, THIRSK, DURHAM, LANCASHIRE
FEATHERSTONE     KNEDLINGTON, GILBERDYKE, E. YKS
CLAYTON   PATRINGTON, KEYINGHAM, STADDLETHORPE, E. YKS
CAWOOD   RAWCLIFFE, STADDLETHORPE
WALKER     HADDELSEY, EASTRINGTON, SHIPTONTHORPE, E. YKS
BEAN         STILLINGFLEET, ULLESKELF, KIRKBY WHARFE, YKS
TAYLES     LINCS.

Offline bendywendy

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Re: Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk t o Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 27 August 09 07:35 BST (UK) »
Here is the Norwich Records Office website

http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/nroindex.htm

Scroll down to Summaries of Collections (turquoise band) then click on
NROCAT - our online catalogue
takes time to get familiar with this site and how it works, but is invaluable for finding information.
Take a look at the website as a whole, fascinating.
HALL     REEPHAM, HACKFORD, GUESTWICK, NFK
HALL     YORK, HOLME ON SPALDING MOOR, E. YKS
HALL     BELBY, Nr HOWDEN, E. YKS
HOUFE   YORK, RICCALL, THIRSK, DURHAM, LANCASHIRE
FEATHERSTONE     KNEDLINGTON, GILBERDYKE, E. YKS
CLAYTON   PATRINGTON, KEYINGHAM, STADDLETHORPE, E. YKS
CAWOOD   RAWCLIFFE, STADDLETHORPE
WALKER     HADDELSEY, EASTRINGTON, SHIPTONTHORPE, E. YKS
BEAN         STILLINGFLEET, ULLESKELF, KIRKBY WHARFE, YKS
TAYLES     LINCS.