Migration Workers 1860's from Norfolk to Yorkshire HALL & HOWMAN

[GMJ]

Hi
I just came across your message by chance and felt I had to reply, I also am a decendent of the Great Ryburgh Howmans who came to Hull - George Joseph Ainger Howman and Louisa (nee Brook) are my gt gt grandparents (i'm descended from their daughter Louisa Howman who married Roger Speakman). Also my dad's brother Charles married a Howman cousin, June (she's descended from your branch, Joseph Howman the brother of my George, so I'm guessing you'll know her?).

I've done quite a bit of research on this branch of my tree, but it's a bit unorganized and was a year or so since i've had it all out, so you've inspired me to sort it out incase you want to ask me about any of it!!

If there's anything I can help you with just ask, in case I've already got it and can save you any time. I live in Hull too so can can help re any local source information.

With best regards.

[dobfarm]

Hi B/Wendy
As your original post! Movement and travel of Migration of people from Norfolk to East Yorkshire! Off hand I'm not sure on exact dates! but there used to be the PEE -WEE RUN coastal shipping up the east coast from London to Hull and back! as Unrine was collected in London to use in die process to hold the die. If you look at a map of the wash and North coast of Norfolk to Hull was not that far!*** by ship and so many ships by the Hundred.(Smelly travel  )

Urine was bought!


Just food for thought!

http://www.wovepaper.co.uk/alumessay2.html

http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/histories/irish/working_lives/working_lives.htm

Dobby

[rheme]

Hi
 
Bendywendy  -  once again many thanks for all your help.  Caroline did come to Hull and the evidence of her death you very kindly provided helped me to establish that and stopped me going down the wrong track.  I'm learning.  This comes back to your earlier advice of check and double check.

Reference the 'other' child of Robert Howman which I thought was born in Great Ryburgh (from memory as all my papers were at work).  Well she wasn't it was Collier St., Hull.   On the 1891 Census for Hull Robert and his family were living at 17 Howards Row, Hull.  The entry for 18 Howards Row does not have a Head or wife but goes straight into 'daughter' following directly on from Robert's own.  The name is Emily Smith and she is 18.  The other person living at no. 18 is Thomas Clixby a boarder.  So don't know if she is his daughter or it is an error on the census.  Will probably have to track her birth certificate down.

GMJ  -  It is lovely to hear from you and thanks for getting in touch.  My gt. grandad is Joseph Howman (George's brother).'  My nan was Edith Howman who married Arthur Middleton and they had four children.  Edith is one of 7 children (Doris, Robert, Leah, Mary and Nellie and the sixth of her siblings was Gertie.  However, I am struggling to find anything on her.  It is thought that she may have been born to Joseph's wife Arabella before they met/married.  I don't know of June but shall certainly ask my dad and uncle who probably will.  Good luck with sorting your tree out and I am sure you'll enjoy getting into it again and not if I get stuck (more like when) I would appreciate the help.  It really is quite addictive.  I also live in Hull.

Dobfarm  -  was round at my parents last night discussing migration from Norfolk to Hull and the possibilities of how this was achieved - dad told me about the ships coming up the east coast.  Couldn't believe it when I read your post.  It's great how when doing the family tree we are all willingly researching history.  If only we had paid a bit more attention at school!!

Once again thankyou.

[dobfarm]

Hi Rheme,

These ships was from that program on TV -Can't remember what it was called but a presenter used to rid a BMX bike round the country doing 18/9th century history and inventions also showing the basics from using plastic pop bottles & stuff.
I learned not much in history at school only main stuff! we all did -Sir Frances Drake - 1066 Hastings etc. Footy/cricket/tennis as todays kids was more interesting.  As for Music, Algebra, and Knitting patterns. Well lets say Latin did have competition!

My Mark  X

[dobfarm]

PS
 Speaking of School and todays kids eduction standards.? I went to a stationary shop last Saturday (Sounds like Stables) and to save time asked the assistant (He was talking to his mate first Quote "if you cross your sevens it makes you look more educated for job applications"- unquote ). When I got his attention! I asked "if they had a Dictionary"- After a conducted tour of the shop he said " I ask my boss?" He came back and asked-"is it to do with meanings of words" with a vacant look! -I said yes! Sorry!! we done sell them!!

Don't think he did the 'Times crossword' on his tea break

[bendywendy]

Hi everyone
I can say we are all learning when doing Family History in more ways than one.
 As for "stables" well the spell check on the comp has outdone those sales, how times change in such a short time. I will certainly make sure my little granddaughter will be brought up to use a dictionary, I have plenty of those around and in the loft!!!
I was always told at school it was "rude" to cross your sevens!!!!!

Rheme, did you look at the original copy of the census 1891 for this "child", if you haven't I suggest you do, also go back one page if the entry was at the top as others can be on previous page.
Have you tried to trace her Baptism record, will have a look later for you. She could have been born in Norfolk but Baptised in Hull. Probably not his true daughter, sometimes families took in other children for various reasons, this was not uncommon. Babies have been born to one family and registered with the names of another, possibly because they could not afford to feed another child they had to let the baby/child go. Life was very tough way back then.

[bendywendy]

Hi Rheme
Found this birth on Freebmd, the only one for Hull.

Births Sep 1872   (>99%)
Smith  Emily     Hull            9d         233

Choice of marriages:- Only looked for Sculcoates or Hull, there is more marriages on Freebmd for marriages of Emily Smith.
 Look for her on the 1901 census to see if she is still single, she could be, as women started being more independant and worked rather than looking for a husband.

Marriages Jun 1893   (>99%
Clixby  Thomas    Sculcoates  9d 300       
Kirk  William     Sculcoates  9d 300   
Smith  Emily     Sculcoates  9d 300

Marriages Jun 1894   (>99%   
Robinson  George     Hull  9d 344   
Smith  Emily     Hull  9d 344   
Stathers  William     Hull  9d 344

Marriages Sep 1895   (>99%)
SIDDLE  George Taylor    Sculcoates  9d 261   
Smith  Emily     Sculcoates  9d 261

Marriages Dec 1895   (>99%)
Haseltine  Thomas William    Hull  9d 461   
Smith  Emily     Hull  9d 461       
Waslin  Robert     Hull  9d 461

Marriages Dec 1896   (>99%)
Robinson  Charles William    Sculcoates  9d 339   
Smith  Emily     Sculcoates  9d 339   
SPECK  William     Sculcoates  9d 339   

Marriages Dec 1896   (>99%)
Cheesman  John Henry    Sculcoates  9d 260   
Henry  George William     Sculcoates  9d 260       
Smith  Emily     Sculcoates  9d 260

Marriages Mar 1897   (>99%)
BAINES  Frederick    Sculcoates  9d 187   
Smith  Emily     Sculcoates  9d 187

Marriages Jun 1897   (>99%)   
Smith  Emily     Sculcoates  9d 348   
Stephenson  Charles William     Sculcoates  9d 348   
Stivison  John     Sculcoates  9d 348

[bendywendy]

Hi Rheme
Not found a death for Emily Smith in Hull/Sculcoates, so she either married or moved away.
The birth certificate will give more details, hopefully her fathers name.

If you come across the following references, here are the meanings.

Base Born Child =  Illigitimate
Nurse Child        =  Adopted Child
Wet Nurse         =  A "Milking" Woman paid to breastfeed a child

Always check the last column on the census details this will state if a person is Blind, Invalid, Imbecile, Idiot etc.

We have a good thread going here, so keep us all posted.
Bendywendy

[bendywendy]

Hi Rheme
1901 census, either of these two could be the Emily Smith you are looking for??

Emily Valentine Smith 30 Hull Yorks           Yorkshire                          Holy Trinity
 Emily  Smith               28 Yorkshire Hull         Kingston Upon Hull      Holy Trinity