Author Topic: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?  (Read 23796 times)

Offline valerie1

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 29 January 05 10:28 GMT (UK) »
hello your subject illegitimacy is of great intrest to me,my mother was born out of wedlock her records from Dr Barnardos state her father was a soldier called Frank Taylor based at a camp called Kimnel camp in north wales.
After lots of searching and some great help from, the guys on the great war forum i know that 99% of the men based there were Canadians, so have been chasing the genealogy consultant at the Canadian archives first world war dept.

one of the guys at great war forum has just put a spanner in the works by letting me know that about the time my mother was conceived my grandfather if he was Canadian should have left the camp as in 1919 November they had all gone home.

Although so frustrating i have really enjoyed the chase and i  am still not ready to give up the ghost of Frank

What would i do without this roots chat room the people who use are great and  i have had some fantastic help.

have not answered your query re family tree i don't really know but i can see you have lots of replies.Food for thought?

Offline tallted

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 29 January 05 15:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi Valerie,
All of the WWI Canadian Soldiers have their attestation papers on line.  I will look to see how many there are listed and will then send you the address, as at the moment I have displaced it.  I will post it later today.
My grddad was a WWI vet and the govt sent me his whole military file, it costs very little, you can check that when I get the internet address.
Ted
Surnames I am Interested in:
Dolan, Banks, Chambers, Bemi, Hills, Crowe

Offline tallted

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 29 January 05 15:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Val,
I just found the addy. it is http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/06/06_e.html

There are 51 entries.  It helps to have a regiment number, or Canadian address, or some kind of personal information as you can click on each name for some information.
Good luck on your quest.
Let me know if this helps.
Ted
Surnames I am Interested in:
Dolan, Banks, Chambers, Bemi, Hills, Crowe

Offline kerryb

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 29 January 05 16:04 GMT (UK) »
Ted

thanks for that address, I have just managed to find a Canadian relly on it who married my gr grandmother, they met when he was over here during WW1, I now have his dob and place of birth plus mother's name.  thank you  :)

kerryb
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Searching for my family - Baldwin - Sussex, Middlesex, Cork, Pilbeam - Sussex, Harmer - Sussex, Terry - Surrey, Kent, Rhoades - Lincs, Roffey - Surrey, Traies - Devon & Middlesex & many many more to be found on my website ....


Offline Geoff Chew

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 29 January 05 16:33 GMT (UK) »
Illegitimacy certainly causes headaches in working out the line, but the relevant section in The Complete Parish Officer (published in the 1770s, now on Archive CD Books) shows that the parishes had to take notice of it at the time so as to ensure that maintenance was not swung on to the wrong parish, if the father was unwilling to take responsibility, or if either or both parents were unable or unwilling to finance the child. There should therefore be records of some kind in difficult cases...

Geoff
Northants: CHEW, TEBBUTT, RAGSDALE, WILSON, BAKER, FRENCH, CUMBERLAND
Cumberland: BIRKETT, HODGSON, ROBINSON, TODHUNTER, TOLSON
Angus: DAND, LOW
London: CHEW, CHADWICK, PERRIN
Surrey: CHADWICK, GARRET
South Africa: JEFFREY, JEFFERIES, BIRKETT, CHEW, COMRIE, WALKER, DAND, MACPHERSON, SMITH
Wilts: BULLOCK, JEFFERIES

Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright from www.NationalArchives.gov.uk

Offline valerie1

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 30 January 05 13:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ted
Thanks so much for the info what a great site and the attestation papers were fantastic.

but there is always A But they show everything except what i need to know at this is time.

who was left in this camp in Nov 1919 some of the guys on the great war forum now have me thinking that maybe he wasn't Canadian.

need to sit and put my thinking cap on.

thank you so much for your help, i am going to read some of those papers on line just for interest i know I'm sad.

Offline cwo

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 01 February 05 21:38 GMT (UK) »
 8)  Very interesting discussion.  Just a couple of points. 
For some reason, it seems that, at least in the earlier part of the 19th century, some (what percentage I wonder?) couples got married several years after their first child(ren) was/were born. Another point, which is somewhat related, is that due to the high mortality rate in the 19th century (and possibly earlier) there may have been instances where the mother (and possibly the father) died at a somewhat young age.  The children may then have been taken on by an uncle, for example, and, on marriage, given his name as their father on the marriage certificate. It is therefore essential to check birth and baptismal records to confirm the true father, and even this (knowing(?) our wily old ancestors) cannot necessarily be guaranteed as being 100% accurate.  Often, if you descend from an illigitimate line, you take on the family name of the mother rather than the father (who is often unknown) so, in a sense, your grandmother, great-grandmother, or whoever, takes on the roll, as far as family history is concerned, of grandfather or great-grandfather, etc., and you follow her line from thereon back as if it were the unknown paternal line.  So, for example, if your illigitimate grandfather's mother's family name was Muggins (with apologies to any Muggins out there!) then you would follow that name back in the mists of time--so, in effect, what you have is a cross-over in the family name.   If you are a Muggins then, even if by illigitamacy, you are a Muggins!  There's no two ways about it.  And, in today's day and age, it is something not to be ashamed of.  Lastly, don't forget the struggle that a grandmother, great-grandmother, or whoever, may have had in bringing up (an) illigitimate child/children, even if she was partly culpable!!  Charles   P.S. There must also be instances, even if rare, of a mother dying young and the widowed husband marrying his late wife's sister and she taking on any children as her own!!  Nothing is ever, or hardly ever, straightforward in family history!   ;D

Offline Mobo

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 10 February 05 22:10 GMT (UK) »
 :) :) :)

It depends on the circumstances
ie., if the Parish Record definitely shows 'illegitimate' then I record it as such.
And if the Birth Certificate just shows a - dash - then I just miss out 'Father'.

 :) :) :)
BUCKLEY, Ches. & Lancs, DUNN, Ireland & Lancs. EDGSON, Rutland, Leics & Lancs. LYON, Lancs. McNULTY, Ireland & Lancs. MORRIS, Beds, Hunts & Lancs. SWARBRICK, Lancs. TURNER, Lancs. WILLIAMSON, Lancs.

All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline joboy

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 10 February 05 22:43 GMT (UK) »
I must confess that I have handled very badly ( dont I always?).
I found that my ggg/parents 1st born was born before they wed.
Then ..........  I found a living cousin and,after a few emails and getting along famously with size 11's in mouth I told him what I had discovered.
That was about 4 years ago ......... have'nt heard from him since.
Taught me a lot about people's sensitivities.
Great pity .... we could have shared so much.
joboy
Gill UK and Australia
Bell UK and Australia
Harding(e) Australia
Finch UK and Australia

My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.