Author Topic: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?  (Read 23817 times)

Offline Redroger

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #54 on: Thursday 20 September 18 17:18 BST (UK) »
My maternal grandfather was the reason for the original dismemberment. Just shows how the meaning of a word can completely change in 150 years.
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Offline Andy_T

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #55 on: Friday 15 February 19 08:21 GMT (UK) »
Illegitimacy was a big deal until relatively recently and some people today are shy to talk about it on their ancestry tree. I think majority of us likely found at least one or two "bastard" (S) OR (D) on old parish records. It wasn't the best label to start off with and the very label caused shame.

For me it's not a big deal and I marked my 3 times great grandfather as "base born" (S) of and his father the village joiner was named on his record.

My 2 times great grandfather married twice, had 3 kids with first wife and was a widower in 1851 and on census day he had a lady 16 years younger staying with him and she and a new born baby (not named) were described as visitors.

In 1852 he married his young lady and in 1853 the child was baptised and took his family name and the middle name of his new second wife's family.
On my family tree I just marked born OOW (out of wedlock). It should not have been a big deal but it was!
They had another 7 children but the first born out of wedlock always lived with maternal grandma.
That's weird and I only second guess that she was shamefully kept out of sight even though they got married and gave her our family name. I like to believe that she and her grandma were too close to part them.

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Offline JAKnighton

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #56 on: Friday 15 February 19 19:55 GMT (UK) »
My 3x great grandmother is an interesting case of illegitimacy, and this is how I handled it until DNA more or less proved that I had it right;

She was born in 1868 as Lizzie Wade Rimes, daughter of Elizabeth "Betsey" Rimes. No father named on the certificate, but the middle name 'Wade' gives a clue to her parentage. Two months later, banns are read for the marriage of Isaac Wade and Elizabeth Rimes, but the marriage does not actually take place until exactly a year later, in a register office!

Isaac and Elizabeth have twelve more children together. But Lizzie, the eldest, never actually takes Isaac's surname. She is a Rimes on her marriage certificate, and she also leaves her father's name a blank. The exception is in census records, where her name is Wade just like the rest of her family, but I assume that this is an oversight by the census enumerators.

I have a newspaper clipping which celebrates her 60th wedding anniversary, and she is called the daughter of Isaac Wade. Isaac himself had been dead for 28 years by that point, and her mother Elizabeth for twelve years.

In my tree, I have always had her father as being Isaac Wade, and I have traced the Wade family backwards from him as if they were definitely my direct ancestors. Part of the reason I believed this to be true was that I have photos of them both, and in my opinion there is a definite resemblance. In fact, she probably looks the most like him out of all her 'legitimate' siblings, since she is robustly built just like him, whereas the others are slim and sharp-featured like their mother.

Upon taking a DNA test, I was delighted to see one of my living Wade cousins as a match with an estimated relationship that aligned with Isaac and Elizabeth being our mutual ancestors, rather than just Elizabeth.

What would I have done if this wasn't the case? I would still have kept Isaac and his family as my ancestors, but would leave a note somewhere that Lizzie is a step-child.
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #57 on: Friday 15 February 19 21:07 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Illegitimacy was a big deal until relatively recently and some people today are shy to talk about it on their ancestry tree. I think majority of us likely found at least one or two "bastard" (S) OR (D) on old parish records. It wasn't the best label to start off with and the very label caused shame.
Starting out by researching, or in some cases carrying on previous research, for Puritan ancestors I thought that also but it wasn't always the case. In quite a few families I've traced, there were a large number of illegitimate children, often with several daughters in a family having numerous children without benefit of marriage but there didn't seem to be any concern about this amongst the family and neighbours took little notice of it.
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Offline coombs

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #58 on: Friday 15 February 19 22:42 GMT (UK) »
In 1801 my ancestor Mary Wickham gave birth to a baby girl Amelia Wickham (also known as Mildred) in Twineham, Sussex. According to The Keep, in the Lewes Quarter Sessions, in Jan 1801 Mary was removed from Twineham to Bolney (or vice versa, cannot remember) and it was respited (postponed), and in April 1801 she was removed again. Yet it does not appear on the Sussex poor law database or on Twineham or Bolney settlement/removal orders. Must be a reason. This would have been around the time she had her baby daughter, and the removal may have given a clue as to the daddy. Amelia's baptism just says illegitimate daughter of Mary Wickham.

Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #59 on: Saturday 16 February 19 08:15 GMT (UK) »
Contrary to what many believe illegitimacy was accepted in communities until the Victorian hypocrisy raised it ugly head.

Yes notes were made in parish registers about birth of bastard children but the reason for those notes were due to the parish being responsible for those children if their father did not or could not provide for them.

There was no stigma about bastard children as they were correctly called in those days, but there was often action taken against the mother and/or father of the children, and those women who had multiple bastard births were punished and stigmatised.
In the middle ages it was acceptable practice for a couple to attempt to have a child before marriage though it must be said most such couples married before the birth of the resulting child.

Cheers
Guy
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Offline DavidG02

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #60 on: Saturday 16 February 19 08:21 GMT (UK) »

Also, do DNA tests override documentation? How can they not? Family history is one thing, but genealogy is inherently about one's "genes". Is this where "family history" diverges from ancestry?

I don't agree with most of what you have written, but the above fragment is at the core of it.  We have become used to using the posh-sounding, or scientific-sounding, word "genealogy".  It comes from the same root as "genes", "genetic" etc.  And we use the term "Family History".  So perhaps in due course we will start using thse two terms to mean two different things.

If your ancestry, as defined by the documentation, turns out to differ from your ancestry, as defined by genetic tests, it's not the case that one is right and the other wrong.  Your gggrandfather and his wife your gggrandmother brought up your ggrandfather and his siblings, they were part of your family history.  They may or may not have known that gggf wasn't the man who contributed genetic material to the children, very often it was probably known at the time.  If they were content to accept the family relationships, no reason why we shouldn't do the same 100 or more years later.
Having just seen this I want to say it fits my view and thank you for putting it this way

My father and grandfather had a strained relationship as there was a concern that my grandfather may not have been the sire. It was an illogical irrational thought my grandfather had

I have used DNA to prove (to my satisfaction) that they are related. And they are all part of the family history

I have had my own doubts about some family members but ultimately my brothers and sisters are still that in my mind and will always be so. Whether the DNA says they are not then thats just more searching which is fun in itself

Genealogy-Its a family thing

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Maternal: Munn, Simpson , Brighton, Clayfield, Westmacott, Corbell, Hatherell, Blacksell/Blackstone, Boothey , Muirhead

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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #61 on: Saturday 16 February 19 08:24 GMT (UK) »
In 1801 my ancestor Mary Wickham gave birth to a baby girl Amelia Wickham (also known as Mildred) in Twineham, Sussex. According to The Keep, in the Lewes Quarter Sessions, in Jan 1801 Mary was removed from Twineham to Bolney (or vice versa, cannot remember) and it was respited (postponed), and in April 1801 she was removed again. Yet it does not appear on the Sussex poor law database or on Twineham or Bolney settlement/removal orders. Must be a reason. This would have been around the time she had her baby daughter, and the removal may have given a clue as to the daddy. Amelia's baptism just says illegitimate daughter of Mary Wickham.



No, not a clue to the daddy but a clue to Mary Wickman's parish of settlement (possibly the parish she was born in).
Single pregnant women were often returned to their parish of settlement before they gave birth as the resulting child would become the responsibility of the parish he/she was born in, not their father's or mother's parish of settlement.

Cheers
Guy
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http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

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Offline coombs

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Re: Illegitimacy - how have you handled it on your Family Tree?
« Reply #62 on: Saturday 16 February 19 16:46 GMT (UK) »
In 1801 my ancestor Mary Wickham gave birth to a baby girl Amelia Wickham (also known as Mildred) in Twineham, Sussex. According to The Keep, in the Lewes Quarter Sessions, in Jan 1801 Mary was removed from Twineham to Bolney (or vice versa, cannot remember) and it was respited (postponed), and in April 1801 she was removed again. Yet it does not appear on the Sussex poor law database or on Twineham or Bolney settlement/removal orders. Must be a reason. This would have been around the time she had her baby daughter, and the removal may have given a clue as to the daddy. Amelia's baptism just says illegitimate daughter of Mary Wickham.



No, not a clue to the daddy but a clue to Mary Wickman's parish of settlement (possibly the parish she was born in).
Single pregnant women were often returned to their parish of settlement before they gave birth as the resulting child would become the responsibility of the parish he/she was born in, not their father's or mother's parish of settlement.

Cheers
Guy

Thanks for clarifying.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain