james saunders or saunders-loder

[Loveden]

Waitaha: whakapapa mo Kiritekateka;

Rakaihautu
Te Rakihouia
We-a-Raki
Te Awe-awe
Te Whatu
Te Whatu-hunahuna
Te Whatu-karokaro
Te Whatu-ariki
Te Whatu-karokota
 Waitaha
Taaneauroa

 Na Taaneauroa
      Tititea
      Turu
      Ari
      Takaha
      Koroike
      Tepapapuni
      Taataawhee
      Tahauri
      Rokowhata
      Kawarau
      Parapara
      Waimeha
      Tekaaretu
      Tamaipa
      Waiwhero
      Kahuwera
      Taraia
      Te Kuramoeanu = Uruwera
1. Ko Kiritekateka
2. Ko Whakahiarau

Na Kiritekateka = Koaa
1. Ko Temaiwerohia
2. Ko Korapa

Na Te Maiwerohia = Tamakitahaka
1. Ko Maru
2. Ko Tewharekeake
3. Ko Kiiraho
4. Ko Monene
5. Ko Teratahi
6. Tehuruhuru
7. Ko Moetu
me waiho ikonei i.

[Loveden]

Hi Loveden,
I have just started my journey to find my whakapapa and would appreciate any info you have on James Saunders Loder. We are descendants of his first son John to Pere Kapu. Thanks 
[/q‘

JIMMY THE NEEDLE’(Dunedin Midweek, Wed., September 1, 1982.)
“An extract from the book “Protector of the Aborigines” By Edward Shortland. Contributed by Mary Parata, who is a descendant of Jimmy The Needle.
When crossing the river from the southern bank of the Waitaki, the Maoris usually launched their canoes from Te Huruhuru’s village Puna-o-Maru, near where the Awamoka Creek flows into the Waitaki.
Here lived James Saunders, known as Jimmy the Needle, because he was so tall and thin. Jimmy, who had been a whaler, was married to a Maori woman and was the first white man to live in the district. He saw the need for a ferry across the Waitaki, and having been a sailor, knew how to handle a boat. Jimmy turned his knowledge into profitable use by rowing travelers across the river in a canoe, towing the horses behind. Travellers from the north lit signal fires when they wanted Jimmy to ferry them across. There was no set fare and the ferryman charged what he thought fit-judging shrewdly what he fought his passengers could pay.
One account says: ‘One day Bishop Harper of Christchurch, gave the signal and Jimmy went for and crossed him and his valet safely. The charge, however, rather surprise the Bishop, so he asked Jimmy if he knew who he had ferried over. Jimmy replied he did not.  He was then informed and Jimmy’s reply was “Then I must charge you more. It is not every day I have the chance of ferrying a bishop.” But Jimmy did not have it all his own way for in 1860 a Government ferry was started on the site of the ferry reserve, five miles up the river from the present traffic bridge. This service took away the ferrying business from Jimmy, although he continued to cross the river occasionally.  Because he knew every current and eddy of the river, he could ignore the saying “if you cross the Waitaki often enough it will get you in the end.”
One morning Jimmy was feeling pleased at the birth of a son and Dr. T J T Williams called at the Saunders home. The doctor then said that he would like to see a patient at the northern side of the river, so Jimmy went with him to light a tussock fire to summon the Government ferryman, James Earl, from the north bank. The boat came, took them to the north and some hours later, brought them back. He watched the doctor mount his horse and Jimmy climbed up behind him as they had to climb shallow streams with occasional deep pools in them. The horse stumbled into one of these pools and Jimmy fell off. Not knowing this the doctor on to the bank. Jimmy was a good swimmer but this time he was hampered with heavy coat and cape. The boatman, who had suspected something was wrong, came back, but by this time the body of James Saunders had been taken out of the water. His body was put on a door and taken home.
In the Georgetown cemetery there is  a stone cairn on which is inscribed “ James Saunders Loder, Jimmy The Needle, drowned, 1862.”

[miloleni]

Thank-you Loveden.
I have a copy of the coroners inquest dated 5th January 1863 for Jimmy the Needle's death...happy to share this info but finding it extremely hard to decipher the hand writing!

[SignalHill]

The story of James Saunders and his son's Henry & James inheritance is completed in the Lyttleton Times on 27 August 1885 and 27 November 1885

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18850827.2.4?query=james%20saunders

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18851127.2.19?query=James%20Saunders

It seems they finally got some recompense

Signal

[mihaeret]

Kia ora Loveden,

I am curious abouth the kati huirapa connection with both romia titope and peneamine te kihi, do you have any further information around this.

Can you also indicate which runanga you understand these do affiliate with, as the whakapapa unit within ngai tahu believe that they affiliate with waihao, tuahuriri and possibly moeraki. Mainly wondering if they connect into puketeraki particularly, but also arowhenua and otakou? 

- I also descend from jimmy the needles son john saunders-loder the first and his son the second of that name.

[Loveden]

Kia ora Loveden,

I am curious abouth the kati huirapa connection with both romia titope and peneamine te kihi, do you have any further information around this.

Can you also indicate which runanga you understand these do affiliate with, as the whakapapa unit within ngai tahu believe that they affiliate with waihao, tuahuriri and possibly moeraki. Mainly wondering if they connect into puketeraki particularly, but also arowhenua and otakou? 

- I also descend from jimmy the needles son john saunders-loder the first and his son the second of that name.

Kia ora Miharet. I have yet to find the Kati Huirapa affiliation of Pakinui and Romia although that is one of their hapu affiliations given in the 1879 census.  I have seen the same Kati Huirapa affiliation, not found, given for Reko-a-Tatara at Tuturau although he comes down similar lines as Pakinui and Romia. It appears their is a forgotten Huirapa ancestor further back perhaps through Ruawhakarau? As for Te Kihi; I believe he descends from Te Pananehu, the local Kati Huirapa rangatira associated with the The Waitaki River mouth and other settlements in the area. Te Pananehu is my tipuna. Te Kapa is one of his sons, through his wife Hinewera, and Tamati Huruhuru is his grandson, through his daughter Kaeo, and I suspect Te Kihi was related to them. Huruhuru is the one who moved to Waimate (~Te Waimatemate.). The runaka will be Waihao and Karitane/Waikouaiti.

[Waitahaariki]

Kia ora .. just wanting to know how Pohio was a grandson of Te Rakipataua when his parents were Tutu and Tohu ? Nga mihi
Ps was old Korako (nui) known by another name and was he baptised by WATKIN ?

[Loveden]

Kia ora .. just wanting to know how Pohio was a grandson of Te Rakipataua when his parents were Tutu and Tohu ? Nga mihi
Ps was old Korako (nui) known by another name and was he baptised by WATKIN ?

Rakipataua a Te Kurutakiao raua ko Kiteraki, married Pukukaikai and had Korako (alias Korako-tane or Korakonui) and Hikaka. Hikaka coupled with Kahupatiti, not to be confused with Benjamin Kahupatiti a latter figure. They had Tutu who married Tohu and had Te Ururaki, said to be the oldest, and Horomona Pohio. Kahupatiti was a son of Kou and Whatarau. The latter is a son of Tokorau (a Kati Huirapa) and Te Aotu (a Taoka raua ko Hinekawai a Kati Huirapa). There were other child of Hikaka and Kahupatiti. There were other child from Tutu and Tohu as well. Korako had  an half sister called Korako-wahine and I recall that a branch of the Kahu whanau at Arowhenua come down from her. Yes I am sure Korakonui was baptised by Watkin at Waikouaiti.

[Waitahaariki]

Tena koe ano.. Thank you that is very clear.
If you will continue to indulge me please as this is very important to me. Who was Kōrakonui married to ? and are you aware of the Tupuna Te Ihu-puku .. do you know the uri of Korakonui as the land court minutes etc. give a number of Kōrako including the one apparently shot and killed at Otakou by pakeha .. Te Rakipataua is annotated in our family whakapapa as being an uncle to Karetai and Taiaroa and if this is correct then he is my tipuna too just under a different name. Which as a tohuka wouldnt surprise me. If not then I’m back to square one. Panenehu and Te Rakipataua keep coming up in our Whanau Korero so I’m obviously missing something ?
Nga mihi whanauka, thanks again for your knowledge