BREWER Family in Bath, Avon Somersetshire?

[hoarder]

I think what is adding to the confusion is the overlapping/switching of christian names.

Constance Irene Kathleen b1911 married a Shephard sometime prior to 1939

Kathleen Irene was residing at Osbourne Rd Bath when the photo was dated in 1934

I dont think they are one of the same.  The hand written letter of 1902 is written to Katie, couldnt have been Constance (b1911)

Henry Brewer b 1879 couldnt have been married to the Mother of Katie (mentioned in the 1902 letter)

I have an additional Carte Vista of a Victorian lady (no name but with the other photos) which may be the Mother of Katie and the one who died c1880......if her names included Kathleen or Irene I think ill hit the whisky bottle lol....but thanks for your efforts

[DRH123]

BathBMD is a good place to start.

Constance's mother's maiden name was Woods.

Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1911
Surname   Forename(s)   Sub-District   Registers At   Mother's Maiden Name   Reference
BREWER   Constance Irene Kathleen   Batheaston   Bath   WOODS   BEA/30/358

There is only one Brewer/Woods marriage, confirming her father was Henry (Harry) and mother Katie.



Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1908
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference
BREWER   Henry   WOODS   Katie Elizabeth   Oldfield Park Baptist Church, The Triangle   Bath   A31/1/018

They are in the 1911 census with their first child Reginald, aged 31 and 29, both born in Bath.

Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1879
Surname   Forename(s)   Sub-District   Registers At   Mother's Maiden Name   Reference
BREWER   Henry   Batheaston   Bath   ROBBINS   BEA/17/095
(though there are other Brewers with Henry as a second name)

Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1881
Surname   Forename(s)   Sub-District   Registers At   Mother's Maiden Name   Reference
WOODS   Kate Elizabeth   Lyncombe/Widcombe - First Series   Bath   HAWKINS   LW1/30/028


She was the daughter of James Wood and Mary Ann (Hawkins) (from FreeREG)

County   Somerset
Place   Bath
Church   Lyncombe - St Mark Pr
RegisterNumber   1428
DateOfBirth   * Sep 1881
BaptismDate   09 Oct 1881
Forename   Kate Elizabeth
Sex   F
FatherForename   James
MotherForename   Mary Ann
FatherSurname   WOODS
MotherSurname   
Abode   Oak Street L B Road
FatherOccupation   Groom
Notes   
FileNumber   15102

He can also be found in the 1911 census, with wife Mary Ann, but it's a new wife, they've only been married 9 years and have had no children together.

This is presumably the marriage

Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1901
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference
WOODS   James   TELFORD   Mary Ann   Bath, Holy Trinity (Monmouth Place)   Bath   C2/5/02

So it looks like the letter was to Katie Woods (before she married Harry Brewer) and was replying to her reporting that her father had recently remarried. The "children of his own" is still confusing.
Perhaps there had been no previous contact since before James first married - quite likely if the writer's mother having been dead for 20 years was news.
David

[hoarder]

Wow! What can I say David but many thanks for this excellent information which I know gives answers to my questions once I have been able to figure out who is who etc.

To put things in context and perhaps for the benefit of anyone else reading these posts, here is what I have....this collection was all together from one household and obviously linked.

I have medals and army documentation for Henry Brewer, b1879 (Served 1914-19 Army Service Corps)

I have a letter from Yeovil dated 1902 to a 'Katie' commenting that her Mother has been dead over twenty years and  Glad to hear your Father is comfortably married again for no one can say he has shown any disrespect to your dear Mother's memory after remaining single  these years, for as he gets older and his children marry he will need someone to care for him. I didnt represent this very well in my original post.

I have a family group photograph of Male/Female and girl aged about 5 boy aged about 7. Whilst the man looks older by some years than the woman and is wearing 1902 pattern Army Uniform the reverse of the photo handwritten states 'Property of K I Brewer 8 Osbourne Rd, Lower Weston, Bath 4/10/34. I am still convinced that the photo predates 1934 by quite a few years.


I have a female officers side hat and Army documentation for Constance Irene Kathleen Shephard (nee Brewer), b1911 who enlisted in the ATS 1n 1939 and was discharged in 1946

I then have a plethora of documents and photographs and miniature medals for a Capt Ernest James Woods MBE b1883  in Walcot Bath and who had a long Army career from 1902 to 1946 (with a break between the wars). Amongst the photos are two photo postcards sent in 1907 & 1909 to his Father (& with love to his Mother) these were addressed to Mr J Woods, 8 Osbourne Rd Bath. Also in his papers it states that he has a sister 'Kate' and a sister 'Minnie'. The space for his mothers details is blank.

Just to throw in an additional spanner, Constance at some stage remarried in Dewsbury around 1950 to a Capt Armitage and I also have his silver identity bracelet.

I still havnt quite got my head round it all yet though your information will no doubt be of great help. At the moment im struggling with the photo but I suspect the handwritten date of 1934 is throwing me off track.

Many thanks again for the valuable information.
Rod

[DRH123]

I have a letter from Yeovil dated 1902 to a 'Katie' commenting that her Mother has been dead over twenty years and  Glad to hear your Father is comfortably married again for no one can say he has shown any disrespect to your dear Mother's memory after remaining single  these years, for as he gets older and his children marry he will need someone to care for him. I didnt represent this very well in my original post.

So it's Katie's mother whose been dead 20 years, not the writer's? That does complicate things.  Katie (b.1881) and her brother Ernest (1883) and Minnie (1885) all had the same mother, so how can she have been dead for 20 years in 1902? She actually seems to have died in 1899, only a couple of years before her husband remarried!  Everything else fits well.

She's in the census for 1891, with James and those three children and a son William aged 14 so born around 1776.  But in the 1881 census James is single! He married Mary Ann Hawkins in Q2 1881 (in the Melksham district).

(Constance married Morgan George Shephard in 1934

Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1934
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference
BREWER   Constance Irene Kathleen   SHEPHARD    Morgan George   Bath, St John the Evangelist, Weston (Upper Bristol Road)   Bath   C23/3/075  )

David

[hoarder]

Can I just express my thanks to everyone who chipped in on this my first ever request and especially to David whos information tied everything together.

Just to recap the outcome was.

James Wood married Mary Ann Hawkins, she passed away in C1880/1 (I suspect in childbirth) There were in fact 3 children. Kate Elizabeth (b1881) The recipient of the 1902 letter stating her mother had died some 20 years earlier ...Ernest James b1883 and Minnie b ?......this relation ship is confirmed in Ernest's Army documents where he states the 2 sisters names and also a photo of himself and written on the back 'from your brother Ernie' David states there were no children from the second marriage of James to Mary Ann Telford in 1902 so its a mystery where Ernest and Minnie appear from given Kates Mother died in c 1881.

Kate Elizabeth went on to marry Henry Brewer b1879 and they had 2 children, Constance Irene Kathleen b1911 and Reginald b?....Constance went on to marry  ? Shephard before 1939 and in 1950 remarried a Capt Armitage in Dewsbury West Yorkshire.

I feel fairly confident now that the group photo (see attachment) I have is of Henry Brewer and 2 of children together with his new wife. It is even more clear that the photo could not have been taken in 1934

Whilst there remains a couple of sketchy areas I am now at least able to link up the medals and documents I have.

Thank you all once again

[hoarder]

Hi David......just when you think its sorted eh......lol........let me include the actual quote from the letter to Katie. As you say everything else fit, maybe the letter writer just got it wrong and yet she emphasizes that James did not re-marry quickly (or was this Edwardian sarcasm.
You will be reading my new post by now but I think we are 95% there.
Anyway here is the quote from the letter to Katie

I have no doubt you do miss your dear Mother, for I do even though she has been in the Heavenly House for more than twenty years.
 
 Glad to hear your Father is comfortably married again for no one can say he has shown any disrespect to your dear Mother's memory after remaining single  these years, for as he gets older and his children marry he will need someone to care for him.

Be interested to see if you agree with me that the photo predates 1934.

Thanks again for your help
Rod

[hoarder]

Hi David

Sorry slightly confused and a bit more detail to share.

You said in your first post that James remarried to a Mary Ann Telford

He can also be found in the 1911 census, with wife Mary Ann, but it's a new wife, they've only been married 9 years and have had no children together.

This is presumably the marriage

Bath Marriage indexes for the years: 1901
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference
WOODS   James   TELFORD   Mary Ann   Bath, Holy Trinity (Monmouth Place)   Bath   C2/5/02


So if they had been married 9 years in the 1911 census it was 1901/2 when they married.  This ties in with the letter, I misquoted the writer (writing is very poor) she doesnt say 'after remaining single these years' she actually says 'after remaining single three years'.  This would fit in with your assertion that his first wife died in 1899 .... not twenty years at all!

I think we are very close....maybve as close as we are going to get.

It is interesting that amongst all the collection of documents there is nothing about Minnie or William or Constances brother Reginald....but not sure I even want to go there lol.......

Regards
Rod

[hoarder]

Just to add slightly to my previous post.

I have now discovered in Ernest James Woods Army documents reference to his siblings, he states he has 2 sisters, Minnie and Kate. As there is no mention of William I think we have to asume he was deceased when these documents were completed in 1902.

I feel the photo is definitely James Wood with 2 of his 4 children and either his first or second wife.

[DRH123]

The change to "three years dead" does seem to clinch it. Perhaps the "20 years" refers to the writer's own mother, i.e. she meant, "I have no doubt you do miss your dear Mother, for I do [miss mine] even though she has been in the Heavenly House for more than twenty years".

Mary Ann Hawkins and her premarital son William were both born in Yeovil, according to the census, which is where the letter came from. So presumably the writer was a friend or relative of Mary Ann. FreeBMD gives several Mary Ann Hawkins born in Somerset in the right time frame,  but none in the Yeovil district. If you want to trace that side of the family further you'll have to get her marriage certificate to see who her father was.

I have now discovered in Ernest James Woods Army documents reference to his siblings, he states he has 2 sisters, Minnie and Kate. As there is no mention of William I think we have to assume he was deceased when these documents were completed in 1902.

William married Ellen Davis in 1898, calling himself William Henry Hawkins Woods. He was still alive in 1911, and had a son called Ernest in 1908, so I would think he was on good terms with his (half?)brother.  (James Woods was only about 15 when William was born but I suppose it is possible that he was his father.)

I feel the photo is definitely James Wood with 2 of his 4 children and either his first or second wife.

??  I thought it was Harry Brewer with his wife and two children. There's nothing to indicate James Woods was in the Army. He was over 50 at the start of WW1. His youngest children were the age in the photo in around 1790. Had that style of uniform come in by then.

You've now quoted the name on the back as Mrs K I Brewer. Does it really say that. I was assuming it was written by Constance Irene Kathleen, who had taken to using only her third and second names... written in 1934 but taken around the time of WW1.  But perhaps it was written by her mother, with the I meant to be an E.


David