Author Topic: CARVER Ramblings Part 2  (Read 73892 times)

Offline janan

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Re: CARVER Ramblings Part 2
« Reply #189 on: Saturday 17 February 18 14:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Neil

I hadn't realised that George and Lucy went to NZ (although you may have said somewhere in the thread) - nice to see they named one son Young.

I really ought to get back to researching my Carvers

Jan

So back in 2015 you, me and Marg had a long conversation about the NZ Carvers   :-[ ;D
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Easby Carver

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From Bedfordshire to Canada
« Reply #190 on: Monday 26 February 18 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,

First up - apologies if any of this has been posted elsewhere and covers already trodden ground.
 
This post covers Bedfordshire’s William Arthur Carver (1867-1902) & Kate Burke (1869-1907) and their three children who went to Canada in 1906; Rose, Arthur and Nellie.   In this research I am indebted to, the St George’s Home who were able to supply what they had on the children who went as part of the British Home Children scheme; and to those members of RootsChat who gave me the steers in the first place [see past postings]. 

To briefly summarise, I was keen to establish what happened to William who was one of the last Bedfordshire-born Carvers to migrate northward.  At first pass he seemed to have disappeared down a black hole along with his wife and children.   In a sense, he did, and it was not an immediate happy ending for his family.   In finding an entry in the Lunatic Asylum admissions register for his wife, Kate, on the line immediately above was an entry for a William Carver, albeit confusingly in terms of where he went.  Not to an asylum in Leeds, where his wife went but to Leicester.  These two admittances occurred four days apart.

•   William Arthur Carver died at Leicester Asylum on 2nd October, 1902, having been admitted on 15th July 1902.

•   Irish-born Kate Carver nee Burke died at Menston [Leeds] Asylum on 17th July, 1907, having been admitted on 19th July, 1902.   

Kate had two previous spells at Menston Asylum.   She was admitted for the first time on 14th November, 1899; to be discharged ‘recovered’ on Christmas Day, 1899.   She was admitted again on 23rd April, 1901; and again discharged ‘recovered’ almost a year later on 9th April 1902.
In addition to the three children who went to Canada, there are at least two other children:

Gertrude was born at the start of 1901 and died by the end of the year.   At the time of the 1901 census, she was recorded at the Hunslet Union Workhouse, aged 3 months.  This would have been 31st March; 24 days later her mother, Kate, went into the lunatic asylum for the second time.

Frank was born at the end of 1898 in Hunslet, Leeds.  He was baptised in November 1899 between the 12th and 20th November at Christ Church, Upper Armley, Leeds and his death, aged 1, is recorded in the final quarter of the same year at Bramley, Leeds.   In the parish register for the baptism, no date is entered but there is a word annotated to the side which could read ‘died’.

There may have been other short-lived Carvers in this general period, too, as there are deaths of infant Carvers in Leeds whose parentage I have not uncovered.

The three surviving children, Rose, Arthur and Nellie, arrived in Quebec, Canada, aboard the Ionian on 23rd June, 1906.  At this time their father was dead but their mother, Kate, still had a year to go in the asylum before dying.  I will now do a separate post for each of these children.  Keep in mind that the usual ‘bar of confidence’ I employ, for better or for worse, has been lowered, partly as a necessity owing to:

•   The habit of sisters marrying pairs of brothers and vice versa [how genealogically inconsiderate!].

•   The habit of adding and changing forenames in life.

•   The habit of having so few - but so well-used, forenames.

•   The Catholic Church records being predominantly hand-written.

•   Some of the source documents being written in French [sacre tonnerre!].

•   Outrageously, though most agreeably, going off to Australia for 5 months in the middle of the research.

•   Canadian Births, Marriages & Death records being very limited in scope and varying from province to province.  In fact, Electoral Registers are far more recent – though, self-evidently inconclusive when trying to establish beyond doubt a relationship.   There was also the habit of identifying married women solely by their husband’s name to come to terms with.

Cheers,

Neil [Easby].

Offline Easby Carver

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Rose [Ann] Carver (1892-1978)
« Reply #191 on: Monday 26 February 18 09:37 GMT (UK) »
The starting point for Rose was her 1978 death notice in a local newspaper, forwarded to me by St George’s Home.  This named her children, and in the instance of daughters, their husbands.   It also stated there were 26 grand-children and 34 great grand-children [hold the front page!].

Rose married Bernard Barney in 1916 in Cornwall, Ontario.  From then, her family were based in Montreal, principally in LaSalle it would seem.

I’ll confess to a few head-scratching moments in trying keep up with Rose’s children.  What you see is a best guess, in some instances.  Some of the earlier baptism records I have seen.  There is some evidence to suggest she might have married again – to another Barney, as I’m not sure what happened to Bernard.

1
William Arthur CARVER b: 17 Sep 1867 in Cockayne Hatley, BDF, d: 02 Oct 1902 in Leicester, LEI
+
Kate BURKE b: 1869 in Ireland, m: 09 Nov 1890 in Hunslet, WRY, d: 17 Jul 1907 in Menston, WRY
...2
Rose Ann CARVER b: Jan 1892 in Hunslet, WRY, d: 01 Oct 1978 in LaSalle, Montreal, QBC
+
Bernard Joseph BARNEY b: 12 Oct 1894 in Cornwall, ONT, m: 17 Oct 1916 in Cornwall, ONT
......3
Mary Olive Rose BARNEY b: 05 Jan 1917 in Cornwall, ONT, d: 2004
+
Robert James DICKSON b: 18 Sep 1913 in York, ONT, m: 26 Nov 1934 in Montreal, QBC
......3
Mary Hilda Florence BARNEY b: 29 Jan 1919 in Cornwall, ONT
+
Alex Reynolds DICKSON m: 28 Feb 1938 in Montreal, QBC
.........4
Dorothy Hilda Agnes DICKSON b: 12 Aug 1938 in Montreal, QBC
......3
June BARNEY b: 1920 in Cornwall, ONT
+
Fred AVIS
+
JACKSON
......3
Georgette Frances BARNEY b: 1926, d: 18 May 1993
+
Michael KRAWCHUK b: 1926, d: 1988
......3
Joseph Bernard William BARNEY b: 01 Jul 1930 in Montreal, QBC
......3
Bernard Joseph BARNEY b: 16 Aug 1932 in Montreal, QBC
......3
Mildred BARNEY
+
George BARRIE
......3
Robert BARNEY
+
Elizabeth [BARNEY]


 

Offline Easby Carver

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Arthur William Carver (1894-1979)
« Reply #192 on: Monday 26 February 18 09:54 GMT (UK) »
Arthur joined-up at Valcartier Camp, outside Quebec City, in September 1916 and sailed for Europe with the Canadian Expeditionary Force.  After a spell in England, he reached the front in France in March, 1917.   He survived the hostilities although was mustard gassed.  His discharge in 1919 back in Canada states that although his heart and lungs were normal, the gas exacerbated a previously existing eye condition.

Arthur married Alice Lee in 1920, going on to have two boys, Arthur Lloyd and Robert Vernon.  Whereas his sister remained within the Catholic church, Arthur and his new wife on marriage were Presbyterian.  The base for this strand of Carvers is most definitely St John, New Brunswick - going on to points further east in maritime Canada.   ‘Lloyd’ went on to become a Reverend and died as recently as 2014.  He is buried alongside his wife at Canning, Nova Scotia.  His brother, Robert, died in Sarnia, Ontario in 1998.  I think at the end of his life, Arthur went to live with Robert after his wife, Alice, died between 1953 and 1957, based on the evidence of ER returns.
   
On WW1 attestation papers, those Canadians enlisting had to give details of their parents.   This establishes beyond doubt that Arthur knew about his father, stating his name and that he was born in Leeds, as indeed he himself was.  As for his mother, Arthur left this section to be answered completely blank.  On one other document I have seen for Arthur, he also left this section blank.   His sister, Rose, however, did enter details for her mother [marriage document], where she states her name as what looks like ‘Kate Bowkes’.  I have seen the 1890 church marriage entry for William & Kate and it is most definitely ‘Burke’.

For most of Arthur's life, when given the opportunity to identify his middle name, he chooses not to do so.   It is then, somewhat of a relief, to see it restored on his Sarnia gravestone.

1
William Arthur CARVER b: 17 Sep 1867 in Cockayne Hatley, BDF, d: 02 Oct 1902 in Leicester, LEI
+
Kate BURKE b: 1869 in Ireland, m: 09 Nov 1890 in Hunslet, WRY, d: 17 Jul 1907 in Menston, WRY
2
Arthur William CARVER b: 01 Mar 1894 in Hunslet, WRY, d: 17 Feb 1979 in Sarnia, ONT
+
Alice LEE b: 1892 in Saint John, NB, m: 01 Oct 1920 in Saint John, NB
......3
Arthur Lloyd CARVER b: 13 Dec 1920 in Saint John, NB, d: 17 Feb 2014 in St Thomas, ONT
+
Helena Alice BORDEN b: 1925 in Canning, NS, m: 23 May 1947 in Saint John, NB
.........4
Fred CARVER
.........4
Elizabeth Ann CARVER
.........4
Michael CARVER
.........4
Bryan CARVER
.........4
James CARVER
......3
Robert Vernon Joseph CARVER b: 1923, d: 1998 in Sarnia, ONT
+
Mary Margaret Evangeline ARSENEAULT b: 1922 in Robertville, NB, m: 02 Mar 1946 in Saint John, NB, d: 04 Aug 2007 in Sarnia, ONT
.........4
Patrick Richard CARVER b: 17 Mar 1955 in Sarnia, ONT, d: 08 Nov 2011 in London, ONT
+
Mary Jo [CARVER] m: 13 Sep 1980 in Ontario, CAN
............5
Sean CARVER
............5
Martin CARVER
+
Andrea [CARVER]
............5
Patti-Jo CARVER
+
Michael
............5
Christine CARVER
.........4
David Peter CARVER b: 21 Mar 1959 in Sarnia, ONT, d: 20 Dec 2002 in Sarnia, ONT
.........4
Angela CARVER
+
Leonard VAUGHAN
............5
Jamie VAUGHAN
.........4
Robert CARVER
+
Joan [CARVER] m: 03 Sep 1971 in Ontario, CAN
.........4
Joseph CARVER
+
Jennette [CARVER]
.........4
Paul CARVER
+
Grace [CARVER]
.........4
Ronald CARVER



Offline Easby Carver

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Nellie Carver (1896-?)
« Reply #193 on: Monday 26 February 18 10:32 GMT (UK) »
The youngest of the three, Nellie, I believe returned to England in November, 1914.   

There are a couple of transatlantic crossings made by a Nellie Carver of the right age in 1909 and 1910.   She appears to have been ‘a domestic’ and I believe this is what a lot of British Home girls were trained to do.  Perhaps she was assisting other groups and/or grown-ups in their travels?

The Nellie Carver who arrives in England at the outbreak of the first world war, aged 18, states her last permanent home was in Canada and goes on to indicate her future permanent home was to be in England.  This fits neatly for our 'domestic' Nellie.  Additional weight is placed on this assertion by whom her brother, Arthur, nominated as ‘next-of-kin’ when joining-up in 1916. He nominated the soon-to-be married Rose Carver, of Windsor Hotel, Cornwall, Ontario - and not Nellie.

After 1914, the trail for Nellie for me goes cold – can anyone help?   Ironically, there is a photograph surviving of Nellie alone when in Canada.

If Nellie died unmarried in the U.K., I can not find her.  If she married in the U.K., there are several possible liaisons.     If Nellie did remain/return to Canada, then the only lead I have is a reference to a Nellie Carver in the obituary of Esdras Pariseau in 1978, which states a 'Nellie Carver' as his wife.  He died in Hull, Quebec.   Feel free to pontificate or point out errors or impertinent presumptions made along the way.

Cheers,

Neil [Easby]

1
William Arthur CARVER b: 17 Sep 1867 in Cockayne Hatley, BDF, d: 02 Oct 1902 in Leicester, LEI
+
Kate BURKE b: 1869 in Ireland, m: 09 Nov 1890 in Hunslet, WRY, d: 17 Jul 1907 in Menston, WRY

2...Nellie CARVER b: Jun 1896 in Hunslet, WRY

2...Frank CARVER b: Oct 1898 in Leeds, WRY, d: Oct 1898 in Bramley, WRY

2...Gertrude CARVER b: Jan 1901 in Hunslet, WRY, d: Oct 1901 in Hunslet, WRY





Offline janan

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Re: CARVER Ramblings Part 2
« Reply #194 on: Monday 26 February 18 18:17 GMT (UK) »
Goodness you've been busy, Neil.

William Arthur is son of Jonah son of James and Sophia, is that right?

I've had a quick look for Nellie but can find neither a marriage, return to Canada or death. Can't see her as Carver on the 1939 register either. Very puzzling

Jan
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Easby Carver

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Re: CARVER Ramblings Part 2
« Reply #195 on: Tuesday 27 February 18 12:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Yes - I have William Arthur Carver, b Cockayne Hatley, 1867, as the eldest child of Jonah Carver (1844-1889) & Eliza Arnold (1848-1913) with James Carver (1806-1881) & Sophia (1813-1878) as grandparents.

Neil [Easby]

PS: [Was Sophia's surname ever established?  I seem to remember discussions on this.]

Offline janan

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Re: CARVER Ramblings Part 2
« Reply #196 on: Tuesday 27 February 18 13:08 GMT (UK) »
Yes, Sophia Breed

The marriage took place in Sutton

James Carver of Cockayne Hatley to Sophia Breed of this parish on 15th Oct 1831

A short rambling thread can be found here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=229051.0

Jan
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Easby Carver

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Minnie Carver b q3 1886 - daughter of George & Phoebe
« Reply #197 on: Monday 02 July 18 20:22 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I have a possible lead for one of my long-time not founds and hope somebody might be able to confirm it somehow or, at least, disabuse me of the notion.

It concerns MINNIE CARVER (my 1st cousin 2 times removed) who was born q3, 1886, in Wakefield.  She was the daughter of GEORGE CARVER (1856-1926) & PHOEBE PRATT (1859-1912) and the last record I have of her is via the 1901c.  I can not locate her on the 1911c.

My lead is that Minnie married a FRANCIS KENYON DOLLMAN at St Pancras, 1918.  The Minnie Dollman who appears on the 1939c with Francis has a DoB of 27th July 1886 - spot on the right quarter for our Minnie methinks.  They appear to have had a son, STANLEY H F DOLLMAN.  Minnie died in June 1943 at St Pancras with a stated DoB of abt 1887.

Can anyone help verify 'our' Minnie Carver becomes this Minnie Dollman or already knows this?

Cheers.

Neil (Easby)