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Author Topic: John Rose and Helen Grieve  (Read 5649 times)

Offline heedrapper

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John Rose and Helen Grieve
« on: Tuesday 23 September 08 18:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Rootschatters,
I’ve come to a grinding halt with above couple, John Rose and Helen Grieve.
They had a son called John Rose b circa 1834, he married Isabella Stevens at District of Peebles in 1857. John jnr, is described as 23 years, usual residence Glen Parish of Traquair. Plasterer, bachelor. Parents: John Rose, Joiner & Helen Rose m.s. Grieve (deceased). I have been unable to find John snr, or Helen on census for 1841 or 1851.  John jnr. died on 8th January 1918, aged 78 years, where John snr. is described as Mechanical Engineer (deceased) by his granddaughter, who reported her father’s death. I have been unable to find any other children of John and Helen. I have no idea where John and Helen lived or when they were born. Any help please?


SCOTLAND:
Rose of Kilravock,
Roses in Peebles-shire,
Roses in Aberdeenshire

Offline excel

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Re: John Rose and Helen Grieve
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 27 September 08 17:40 BST (UK) »
If you have census information for John jnr where does it say he was born? Is he lodging in edinburgh in 1861 while wife, Isabella and son John are in Innerleithen? If so he was born Aberdeen.
All UK Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cline: Ireland and Berwick on Twieed
Collin: Eyemouth
Clyne: Ireland, Berwickshire, Northumberland
Barns, Barnes: Fife
Walker: Edinburgh & Stirling
Laing, Wilson, Forrest, Forrester, Colven, Rae, Cowe, Buglass, Johnson, Wilson, Thorburn, Darling, Broomfield, : Berwickshire
McRaw, Cameron, Taylor, Gould/Guild, McIntyre, Maxton, McDonald, Douglass : Perthshire
Cormack, Campbell, Sutherland, Doull: Caithness


Offline heedrapper

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Re: John Rose and Helen Grieve
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 04 October 08 12:58 BST (UK) »
Thanks excel, that is correct. Listed below is all I know about John jnr. Please bear in mind that it's John snr. and Helen Grieve that I'm stuck at.

John Rose, born around 1833, in the Aberdeen area. He moved to Glen Parish of Traquair, near Innerleithen, and married Isabella Stevens in 1857 at Peebles. He was a plasterer to trade.
In 1861, we find him living at 73 Nicholson Street, Edinburgh, as a lodger and plasterer, having left Isabella and young John in Innerleithen.
In 1871, he is reunited with Isabella, living at 2 Eglington Street, Edinburgh, together with their 5 children. He is described as a Grocer.
In 1881, he has moved into 6 Eglington Street in addition to number 2, as his family grows. The 5 Children ages 9 to 22 are still living at home with their parents. He is described as a grocer.
In 1891, he is back at Rose Cottage, Princes Street, Innerleithen, with Isabella, and son William. He is described as a plasterer.
In 1901, at the age of 68, he and Isabella had returned north to 22 Buchanan Street, Leith. He was living out his days as a gardener. Isabella died on 5th June 1904, reported by John.
In 1918, on 8th January, he died aged 78 years, at 16 Barnton Terrace, Edinburgh. His death cert, describes him as Builder (Retired), widower of Isabella Stevens. Father: John Rose, Mechanical Engineer (deceased). Mother: Helen Grieve (deceased).. His death was reported by his daughter, Beartrice Malcolm.
SCOTLAND:
Rose of Kilravock,
Roses in Peebles-shire,
Roses in Aberdeenshire

Offline excel

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Re: John Rose and Helen Grieve
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 04 October 08 17:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the reminder but I only looked for john jnr to find his birthplace to see if that would help me. It is a brick wall, isn't it! Do you think that the daughter who was informant got the wife's surname right? The only John & Helen I can find and it is a huge log shot!:
1851 Bernards Wynd, Lanark
John Rose, 37, b. Aberdeen, hand loom weaver cotton
Helen, wife, b. Lesmahagow, Lanark
Catherine, dau, b. Lanark, hand loom weaver cotton
John, 11, b  Lanark, scholar
Jane, 1, b. Lanark
1861 6 1/2 close off high street, Lanark
John Rose, head, born Lanark, cotton weaver
Helen, wife, 40, b. Lanark, cotton winder
Charlotte, 6, b.         "
Elizabeth, 3               "
Janet, 6 mo               "
Also in 1881
Now ancestry has gone off! Perhaps I should get a life!
You must feel like a true heedrapper with this! Perhaps John was married twice.
All UK Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cline: Ireland and Berwick on Twieed
Collin: Eyemouth
Clyne: Ireland, Berwickshire, Northumberland
Barns, Barnes: Fife
Walker: Edinburgh & Stirling
Laing, Wilson, Forrest, Forrester, Colven, Rae, Cowe, Buglass, Johnson, Wilson, Thorburn, Darling, Broomfield, : Berwickshire
McRaw, Cameron, Taylor, Gould/Guild, McIntyre, Maxton, McDonald, Douglass : Perthshire
Cormack, Campbell, Sutherland, Doull: Caithness

Offline heedrapper

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Re: John Rose and Helen Grieve
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 04 October 08 18:46 BST (UK) »
Thanks again, excel. John's parents' names are correct, they also appear on his marriage cert. The 1851 census is a possible that I will check out. 1861 is unlikely since Helen died pre 1857. He may have married twice, as you say.
SCOTLAND:
Rose of Kilravock,
Roses in Peebles-shire,
Roses in Aberdeenshire

Offline heedrapper

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Re: John Rose and Helen Grieve
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 04 October 08 19:27 BST (UK) »
I don't think either entry is the family I'm looking for, excel. Interestingly the 1851 entry shows Helen, wife aged 28 and Catherine, daur (of John) aged 18, although it's not my family, your theory about a second wife looks right.
SCOTLAND:
Rose of Kilravock,
Roses in Peebles-shire,
Roses in Aberdeenshire

Offline heedrapper

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Re: John Rose and Helen Grieve
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 August 13 13:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Rootschatters,
I have finally broken through one half of my ‘brick wall’ after many years of trying.
John Rose and Isabella Stevens used the Scots’ naming convention for their children. This has allowed me to ‘crack’ the ‘Helen Grieve’ line.
Their child (3rd daughter) Robina Baird Rose born 1869, allowed me to identify Helen Grieve’s parents as Hay Grieve and Rabina Bertram. So far nothing more on the Grieve line, but Rabina’s line led me back to the Bertrams of Nisbet and Kersewell, and the Hays of Haystoun and Smithfield (a great result for me)
The Rose line still remains unsolved. Using the same thought process.....
Child Joseph Rose (3rd son) born 1866 should lead me to......
Joseph Rose b1866 Edinburgh – John Rose b abt1834 Aberdeen – John Rose – Joseph Rose??
Any thoughts or help please..........

Bill
SCOTLAND:
Rose of Kilravock,
Roses in Peebles-shire,
Roses in Aberdeenshire