Maher Family - Tipperary

[David409]

My ggggrandfather was James Maher born 1786 north of Nenah Tipperary.
He was the son of Michael.  He married Catherine Hanley and had 5 children James 1827, Edward 1821, Catherine 1834, Thomas 1825, and Ellen 1836.  The family left Ireland in the late 1840's and moved to Ontario, Canada.  The children married local Tipperary folks.  James wed Ellen Cain (do William Cain and Hannah Flannery), and Catherine wed Roger Carroll.  Looking for any one with ties back to Tipperary.

[Mah29]

In addition to the seven children listed on page 1, James and Mary Butler Maher from Annfield had three additional children:  Margaret, John and Patrick.

Patrick was the youngest and was my grandfather

Five children, including my grandfather, immigrated to the US and the other five moved to Scotland.

As I am new to responding, if I figure out if and how private message can be sent, I will try that.

[Mah29]

Entering more information as I have to post three replies before I can use PM function.

Have major questions about the Maher census in Goldengrove/Annfield in both 1901 and 1911.

In the 1901 census, my grandfather Patrick is listed as age 26 and a postman.  He was 16.

On that same census, there is a 3 year old named Kate, listed as a granddaughter.  As far as I know none of Mary and James' children had children in Ireland. The five who came to the US (Margaret, Ellen, Thomas, Michael (he first went to Scotland) and Patrick were all single.

On the 1911 census, Mary's son John had returned home with his family.  Listed on that census was an 18 year old grandson named Matthew.  Again, I have no clue who this child could have belonged to, if his age was correct.  As far as I know, he was no relationship to John and wife.

James Maher died between the 1901 and 1911 census.  I believe that Mary Butler Maher lived until at least 1920.  I cannot find any information about their deaths. 

[Mah29]

I hope that the third post is a charm and the PM works

Mary Butler and James Maher were married in Drom parish (Church of Monroe/Monrae) located fairly close to their home in Annfield.  All of their children were Baptized in that same Parish.

I am seeking any and all information regarding James Maher's mother's maiden name and am also seeking Mary Butler's mother's maiden name.  Ten years of searching is enough. 

I am also seeking any information about James and Mary's siblings names.  In order to request further research in Tipperary, I need more information than I currently have.

I am assuming that one of Mary's brothers may have been Patrick Butler, although in one census he was lsited as a lodger in the Maher home.

Please get in touch with anything you have to share.

[mags c]

Hi you may already have this information but here goes:
Mary's fathers name was Edward Butler.  James Father's name was Thomas Maher.  I think I am right in saying that in the 1901 census they were both living at 38 Crohane Lower James (58) was a shepherd/herdsman and Mary (53) was a housekeeper.  In 1911 census Mary  (65) was a widow living at 6 Rathclarish and was a farmer.  James died (I think) on the 20/3/1907.  Their sons Ned and Cornelious  came to Glasgow some time after that and Ned married a Winifred O'Nell in 1914.  thats where my husband comes in.  Ned was his grandfather.  Hope this helps.  I find as time goes on you discover aliitle bit more that you hit a wall again.  very frustrating.  I keep trying to persuade my hubby to go across to Ireland but he's not taking me on so far.  the other problem as I am sure you know is that a lots of Irish records were destroyed by "fire" so this doesn't help.

[shanew147]

The details quoted about the Public Records Office fire during the civil war are often a little inaccurate, or incomplete. Many of the records held there were destroyed, but many vital records were not held in the PRO so were unaffected. e.g. all the civil BMD records (i.e. certs), RC parish records and also records for various denomination other than those for the Church of Ireland...

The lack of early RC records is more likely due to the after effects of the penal laws.


Shane

[Mah29]

Thanks for the responses

It appears that we have some conflicting information about the family and where they lived?  The Church records I have indicate that the family lived in Goldengrove (Annfield), Inch Parish.

The census records you and I have Mags appear to be different?  Frankly there are so many different areas that it confuses me!

The 1901 census for James and Mary Maher that I have is in the Poor Union of Thurles, District of Gortkelly, Townland of Goldengrove and Parish Inch.  1901 shows James (age 70) and Mary (age 60) plus son Patrick (my grandfather noted as age 26 but actually 16), a granddaughter Kate, age 3 and Patrick Butler, age 70, an agricultural laborer and lodger.  James Maher was listed as a laborer, his wife a housekeeper and Patrick a rural postman.

The owner of that house was James Butler.

In 1911, Mary Maher was listed as a housekeeper in that same home.  Her son John and his family had returned from Scotland and were in the home.  Son John was listed as a road contractor

In 1911 the house was owned by Edmund Butler.  Edmund Butler (Ned) was James Butler (the owner in 1901's son)

My grandfather Patrick was the last of ten to leave Ireland.  He joined three of his siblings in New Jersey USA and a 5th left Scotland and joined them later.  Three siblings remained in Jersey, one moved to New York and the other moved to Connecticut.

In church records, Thomas Maher, father of James, was listed as a shoemaker.  Edmund Butler, father of Mary, was listed as a laborer.  Both Thomas and Edmund were also from Goldengrove/Annfield.

Goldengrove only consisted of five houses in the 1901 census.  There are now only three houses in rural and beautiful Goldengrove. 

Church records that I have indicate all ten children that I previously listed.

We must be talking about two different areas in Tipperary?

[shanew147]

I think you are dealing with two separate areas in Co. Tipperary, and maybe two different families ?

here's a summary of the details for the two townlands mentioned :

  Townland : Goldengrove   
  Acres : 101
  Barony : Eliogarty
  Civil Parish : Inch
  PLU : Thurles
  County: Tipperary, N.R.

  Townland : Crohane Lower       
  Acres : 1,530
  Barony : Slievardagh        
  Civil Parish : Crohane
  PLU : Callan
  County : Tipperary, S.R.

The townland of Goldengrove is in the PLU/Registraton district of Thurles in Tipperary North Riding, whilst the townland of Crohane Lower is in Tipperary South Riding and in the District of Callan. The towns where these districts are based are about 40 km (~25 miles) apart.

You can see these locations in relation to each other on Google Maps : Goldengrove - Thurles - Crohane Lower - Callan

The surnames Maher and Butler are quite common in this area, so it's possible that there would be several couples with  this combination of surnames.


Shane

[Mah29]

Shane, I think you are right, although it is quite odd that we each have a James Maher, son of Thomas Maher and a Mary Butler, daughter of Edmund/Edmond.  To complicate matters more, we each have that family with sons Cornelius and Edmund/Edmond who moved to Scotland

The ten children I formerly listed as children of my particular James and Mary are from the church within a mile or so of Goldengrove/Annfield.  Those records have been officially documented and most are according to the records my grandfather/his daughter left.

Mags, do you have the name of the woman that Cornelius married in Scotland?  I want to see if we have the same person which will only lead to more confusion for me!