Author Topic: Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records  (Read 9694 times)

Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« on: Thursday 27 January 05 23:11 GMT (UK) »
Hello

I'm trying to get back another generation by finding out some details about James Kirkham who married Mary Brown, possibly in or around Macclesfield about 1824-25. He was possibly a silk weaver at the time , although the Australian death certificate (1883) for his son Isaac have James' occupation as a quarryman/stonecutter.

Their  five children - Sarah, Isaac, Mary, Hannah, John - were born between 1825 and 1837 and they were all christened at the Sunderland Street Wesleyan Church, Macclesfield on 29 June 1837.

And that's all we know about James and Mary. Hopefully it's enough to turn up a lead about James and Mary's marriage or their parents through the parish records.

Any information or other advice about where to look would be very much appreciated.

Thank you. 

Following a request for more info I received this by PM.

Thank you for your message.  Here goes with the other details.

“The Parish Register of the Sunderland Street Wesleyan Church, Macclesfield, recorded the baptisms of five children of James and Mary Kirkham. All the children were baptised on 29 June 1837.”

Sarah, b. 29/9/1825
Isaac, b. 22/12/1827 (my great-great-grandfather)
Mary, b. 20/3/1833
Hannah, b. 23/3/1835
John, b. 4/4/1837
(from work undertaken by my father’s cousin)

The information that Mary’s maiden name was Brown comes from Isaac’s death certificate (died 1883 in Rockhampton, Queensland, under the name of William Isaac Kirkham, which he had assumed after arrival in Australia – definitely after 1864 but maybe a little earlier). So it could be that her name was not Brown at all, as I don’t know how reliable the informant was.

As to James’ occupation, Isaac’s marriage certificate (to Louisa Willcock at St Mary’s, Astbury on 12 September 1859) shows it to be a stone cutter; and Isaac’s death certificate shows his father, James, to have been a quarryman. However, it seems the baptism records above have James as a silk weaver.

I don’t know for sure whether any of Isaac’s siblings came to Australia, but there is no mention of that possibility in the previous research. I had actually thought Isaac and Louisa’s son, Walter (b. 3 July 1860 at North Road, Preston, Lancs. – Isaac had a butchery there) was the first to come here, arriving in June 1878 on the Kapunda. But it looks like his father—who, it appears, came to Australia with Louisa’s sister, not Louisa—might have sponsored him to emigrate to Rockhampton. Louisa did come out to Australia in 1882, sponsored by her son, and died in Sydney in 1899.

My major hurdle now is, because all the children (that I know of) of James and Mary were born before July 1837, I can’t get hold of certificate references through sites like FreeBDM. The same obviously goes for James and Mary’s births and marriage (if there was one). I’ve collated a list of possible death certificates via FreeBDM but, with the number of people with these names, it’s not feasible to purchase all the certificates just to find out if the person had children by these names.

So I’m hoping that the Parish Records will give some leads so I can eliminate a lot of the James Kirkhams and Mary Browns from the list.

One other area of advice please: should I put this level of detail on the message board? It seems to make for a very long message.
Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

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Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 03 February 05 12:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi
    I have managed to find the following on your Kirkham family

1851 HO107-2159-F282  Bank Street Macclesfield

James Kirkham head 53  silk weaver  born Hurdsfield Macclesfield
Mary      ~        wife   50 care of family  ~        ~                 ~
Mary      ~        daug 18  silk piecer                             Macclesfield
Hannah ~           ~    16  ~     ~                                          ~
John      ~         son   14  ~     ~
Joseph  ~           ~     12  ~     ~
Margaret ~      daug  10  ~    ~

1841 HO107-131-09-F 10  Bank Street Macclesfield

James Kirkham  41  silk weaver       born in county
Mary      ~         38                               ~   ~   ~
William  ~         19  tailor
Sarah   ~          15  silk piecer       
Isaac    ~          14  ~     ~
Mary     ~            8
Hannah ~           6
John      ~           4
Margaret ~         6 months

The IGI lists two baptism's for the name James Kirkham
1) 14/10/1798  Christ Church Macclesfield father William mother Sarah
2) 01/09/1805    ~         ~         ~              father James mother Martha

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true 

I would be tempted to plump for the first one because of the naming of the first two grandchildren IE William and Sarah

if I can find them on any later census's I will post again,or if you want me to look for anything specific please ask.

peterbennett                              
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 February 05 22:58 GMT (UK) »
Wonderful, Peter.  :D

Thank you very much for this - it's given me a new lease of life on this branch of the tree.
Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 09 February 05 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi
      Just trying to clear something up,on your original post you mention Isaac traveling Australia with Louisa's sister,have her name that she traveled under ?
     
peterbennett  
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 February 05 08:05 GMT (UK) »
Peter

as I mentioned in my personal email responding to your last question, I have a few queries arising from the census information you posted, mainly about the newly found older brother William, and younger brother Joseph.

I think I found William as a 58 year old tailor in the 1881 census (on LDS site), with wife Charlote. I'd be interested to know if he/they appear in earlier censuses as I haven't found a marriage record yet. I'm hoping that information about William will lead me to one of his records and, through that, some more information about his parents, Mary especially.

I'm also curious to know how a son makes his first census appearance with the family when he is 12 years old. Any ideas?

I have rechecked the 1841 census and Joseph aged 2 is on it my mistake,sorry. PB

Thank you


Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 10 February 05 17:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi
      In order to find more about Mary the mum I suggest you use the http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/ this is the most comprehensive of the free online BMD indexes. In the UK civil registration did not come into being until 1837,which means that there are no details of Williams birth without searching at the records office. I suggest you apply for the birth certificate of one of the children born after 1837 IE Joseph or Margaret this will give you the mothers maiden name.
     With regards to Williams details I have found the following
He married Charlotte Bloor at St Peters Church Prestbury 1845 his marriage certificate will only give you his fathers name, age and occupation nothing on the mother.

1871 census RG10-3675-F154  57 Park Green Macclesfield

William Kirkham head 48  tailor                 born Macclesfield
Charlotte ~        wife  49                                         ~
Fanny      ~        daug 21 silk hand                          ~
Hannah   ~          ~     19    ~    ~                            ~
John Thomas     son    14  tailor                               ~
James Edward    ~      12  scholar                            ~

William died 1898        Charlotte died  1891

     I am searching for more details on census records for Isaac 1851 and 61 if possible. You say that Isaac had a butchery in Preston 1860 onwards, this worries me a little as to how Isaac came from a silk worker in Macclesfield to being a butcher in Preston, does the marriage certificate mention Isaac's age and occupation ,also I cannot find son Walter in 1871 ?

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #6 on: Monday 14 February 05 23:11 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Peter for the new information.  I did a lookup of the cheshirebmd site and have the references for the younger children's births. But, based on your last comment, I think I might wait a little until I'm sure my family's Isaac is the same one as we've been chasing. There are a few discrepancies.

His marriage certificate - 12 September 1859 at Astbury - has him as 28 years old, which means he was born in 1831 or possibly 1830. And he was already a resident of Preston Lancs, with his occupation a Provision Dealer and his father, James Kirkham, a stone cutter.

His son Walter (no second name) was born on 3 July 1860 in North Road, Preston. Isaac, now a Pork Butcher Master, was the informant for the registration. The number on the certificate is 465.

Walter's death certificate (1903) has his father as William Kirkham, butcher.

Isaac/William's death certificate (1883) has him as 60 years old, and coming to Australia in 1862. This would make his year of birth 1823, which is also different from the baptism record for the Macclesfield family I've been looking at, 22 December 1827.

There also appears to have been a change of occupation with the father James Kirkham, from silk weaver to stone cutter/quarryman. Are these changes reflections of the fortunes of the silk industry at that time? If the change is unlikely, there is the coincidence of the mother's name, Mary - but I've just realised that we don't yet know if the Macclesfield family mother was Mary Brown, so I'd better get on to the Cheshire records office after all.

And on another point you raised, Isaac's Preston shop was in North Road, where Walter was born. Walter may have been with his mother in Congleton in 1871, perhaps living with his Willcock relations and sister Louisa??

The closest reference to Macclesfield in this set of documents is Congleton, where Isaac's wife was born and where they got married. So I hope we haven't been looking at the wrong Isaac. But some relations from my father's generation did a lot of research and uncovered the documents that I've referred to and went back as far as this Macclesfield family. So I've been assuming that all those discrepancies are just the nineteenth century equivalents of typos.




 
Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 27 February 05 15:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi
     Here is the census info on Louisa Kirkam ( Wilcock ) that I have found for her up to 1871 she is not indexed on the 1881, probably on her way to Australia ?

1841 HO107-119-11-Folio 13 The Parks Congleton

Charles Wilcock  42  school master    not born in county
Edward               12                                  born in county
Elizabeth            10                                      ~         ~
George                7
Charles               5
Soloman              1

1841 HO107-119-11-Folio 13  The Parks Congleton

Elizabeth Yardley 85  independant          born in county
Louisa Willcock    14  female servant         ~    ~    ~

1851 HO107-2167-F 309  Park Street Congleton

Charles Wilcock  head 52 school master  born Hendon Herefordshire
Sarah                 wife   48                                Haslingdon Cheshire
Louisa                daug  25 dressmaker             Congleton
Edwin (Edward)  son   23  weaver                        ~
Charles                 ~    14  silk piecer
Soloman               ~     11  ~    ~
John                     ~       9  scholar

1861 RG9-2610-F 33 Park Terrace  Congleton

Sarah Willcock wife 59                                      born Cheshire
Soloman           son 20  ribbon weaver                     Congleton
John                 son 18    ~        ~
Louisa Kirkham daug 35 married visitor                       ~
Walter    ~        g/son  ? months old                         Preston Lancs

1871 RG10-3704-F 16  Back Park Street Congleton

Louisa Kirkam head marr 46 dressmaker     born Congleton
Louisa     ~     daug           7                                    ~
Edwin Wilcock nephew     5                                     ~
Mary A Cannon visitor      22                                 Astbury

Still digging out info on Isaac will post again when its available

peterbennett

All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 01 March 05 06:19 GMT (UK) »
Again, Peter, thank you for your work. It is much appreciated. And you've narrowed down the probable date of death for Charles Willcock as well - terrific.

I have a reference to Louisa's voyage - her ship arrived in Australia in 1880 but her age was given there as 40 (based on the 1871 census, it should have been 55!) And I wonder what happened to  Walter - he would have been 11 in 1871 and you'd think he would have been at home.

On a slight tangent, I am curious about the names in the residential addresses. Can I assume that the address The Parks  in 1841 and 1851 is the same as Park Street in 1861 and Park Terrace in 1871? Was this a period when naming conventions changed?

And is Back Park Street another street - which is parallel to Park Street ... ?



Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold