Author Topic: Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records  (Read 9736 times)

Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #9 on: Friday 29 April 05 17:08 BST (UK) »
Hi
      Sorry I have been so long in getting back to you.

Quote
On a slight tangent, I am curious about the names in the residential addresses. Can I assume that the address The Parks  in 1841 and 1851 is the same as Park Street in 1861 and Park Terrace in 1871? Was this a period when naming conventions changed?

And is Back Park Street another street - which is parallel to Park Street ... ?


  The area in Congleton known as the Parks is a cluster of streets and roads that surround the local park and they all have Park in their name, the area as changed somewhat over the last 150 years but most of the names are still in use as well as some of the old buildings.
  As a matter of interest my brother is the largest textile manufacturing employer left in Congleton and his business is on Lower Park Street in a mill that was built some 180 years ago.

Quote
I have a reference to Louisa's voyage - her ship arrived in Australia in 1880 but her age was given there as 40 (based on the 1871 census, it should have been 55!)

       
    A lady is never expected to tell the truth regarding her age, but I think she is stretching the truth a little to much, there again it could just be a transcription error, how does her age compare at her death ?

  Over the last few weeks I have been trying to find the Isaac Kirkham that was missing from the 1851 Macclesfield census, below is what I have managed to find and it seems to prove that he is not "your" William/Isaac.

 In the 1841 census we found Isaac (14) son of James and suspected that James's parents were William and Sarah and that he was born in Hurdsfield area of Macc.
 I did a search of the Hurdsfield area in the 1841 census and found.

HO107-105-13-F7  Arbourhay Street Hurdsfield

Sarah Kirkham 70+ not born in county
Sarah Kirkham 25+ silk winder born in county
Edward Davenport 18 cotton spinner born in county

I then found Sarah senior again in 1851 in lodgings( in Bank St.) along with her grandson Isaac and his wife Sarah, who I found had married in 1850 at Tewkesbury ref. Dec V11 P727.

1851 HO107-2159-F 279  Bank Street Macclesfield

William Kirk head marr 31 shopkeeper born Staffordshire
Sarah Kirk wife marr 26 born Macclesfield
Mary          daug       1
Sarah Kirkham widow lodger 84 born Buxton Derbyshire
Isaac                marr lodger 23 silk piecer Macclesfield
Sarah               marr lodger 21   ~    ~      Caughton Warwickshire

1861 RG9-2578-F 134  Goodhall St (off Bank St.) Macclesfield

Isaac Kirkham head 32 journeyman dyer (silk) Macclesfield
Sarah              wife 30 factory girl born Worcestershire
Ann Harris sister/in/law 11 scholar born Tewkesbury Gloustershire

NEW INFO 17 MAY 2006 THE ISAAC AND WIFE SARAH ABOVE WERE FOUND IN PATERSON NEW JERSEY (1880 US CENSUS)

Also in 1861 is this ref for Isaac's father still in Bank St

1861 RG9-2578-F 143  Bank Street Macclesfield

James Kirkham head 65 silk weaver Hurdsfield Macc
Mary                 wife 61 silk weaver Macclesfield
Margaret          daug 25 silk winder Macclesfield

Proberbly the most intersesting and most problematic find was the 1861 census for Preston which sort of maybe clinches things IE two James Kirkam's.

1861 RG9-3135-F 10  140 Adelphi Street Preston Lancs

William Dickinson head marr 31 pork butcher born Prestbury Macclesfield Cheshire
Robert Dickinson son 10 scholar born Congleton
Elizabeth Wilcock sister/in/law 31 servant Congleton
James Kirkham servant marr? 61 Butcher Hartington Derbyshire
Ophelia Kirkham servant unmarr 18 born Congleton

I will let you digest this.
Who is William Dickinson, could he be William Kirham a name he adopted when running away with his sister/in/law ?
Was there anyone else with them identified on the shipslist?

I will go away and do some more searching.

regards

peterbennett


All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 01 May 05 05:27 BST (UK) »
Hello Peter

Many many thanks for this information. I really appreciate the work you have done.

But, oh dear...   ???   as you suggest, I will really have to 'digest' this and try to sort out the puzzle you've discovered.

Will post anything I manage to find out as well.

Thanks again.
Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

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Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 29 May 05 15:49 BST (UK) »
Hi

     I have some more info for you, I have been trying to tie up the people found on the 1861 census Preston, to earlier census's. And also the birth of Robert 1851 Congleton, this birth was the first thing I tried to find but he is not there as Dickinson or Kirkham but I found what I think may be him reg 1851 Congleton Robert John Wilcock ! This may be a must birth certificate to see!

Quote
1861 RG9-3135-F 10  140 Adelphi Street Preston Lancs

William Dickinson head marr 31 pork butcher born Prestbury Macclesfield Cheshire
Robert Dickinson son 10 scholar born Congleton
Elizabeth Wilcock sister/in/law 31 servant Congleton
James Kirkham servant marr? 61 Butcher Hartington Derbyshire
Ophelia Kirkham servant unmarr 18 born Congleton

  Then I tried to locate Ophelia and sure enough her birth was reg in Congleton as the 61 census states, but there were no signs of a family there in 51, in particular I was looking for the James that is on the 1861 Preston.
 Quite by chance I was searching the 1851 census of Bollington Cheshire (a township close to Macclesfield) and came across this family of Kirkhams.
 
1851 HO107-2158-F408  Bollington Road Bollington

James Kirkham head 49 labourer Derbyshire
Mary                 wife 37                 Mere Heath Staffordshire
Mary Ann     daug 15 cotton worker Dial Lane Staffordshire
James           son 11   ~        ~         Cloud Staffordshire
Ophilia         Daug 8   ~         ~         Congleton Cheshire
Hannah       daug 6                          Bollington
Elizabeth             4
John            son 1
Joseph Wilcox nephew 6                 Bollington

I found a marriage indexed in the IGI for a James Kirkham and Mary Wilcox Wolstanton Staffordshire 28/july/1834 ?
Not sure if the above Wilcox are related to the Congleton Wilcocks or it may just be coinsidence.

I then checked the 1861 census for Bollington just to make sure there were not two Ophilias.

1861 RG9-2575-F120  Stakehouse End Bollington

Mary Kirkham Head Marr 50 house keeper Black Brook Staffordshire
Sarah              daug        23 cotton worker Rushton Staffs
James              son          21 stone labourer Rushton ~
Hannah           daug        16 cotton worker Bollington
Elizabeth           ~            14 ~                       ~
John                son           11 ~                       ~

Also found the eldest Kirkam daug Mary Ann married and living close by. She married a William Wilcox! 1856 at Penkeith Stoke on Trent Staffs.

1871 RG10-3669-F20  Millet Cottages Bollington

Mary Kirkham head widow 58 house keeper Meir Heath Staffs
Sarah             daug unwed 32 cotton worker Rushton
Hannah                               26 ~                    Bollington
Elizabeth                            23 ~                       ~
John               son               21 stone quarry man ~

In order to find the Kirkhams in 1841 I have placed a request for a lookup on our Staffordshire board, as James 1840 was born there.

James Kirkham died in Bollinton 1862 age given as 60.
Ophilia Kirkham married Enoch Wilcox !! 1863 at St Margaret Wolstanton Staffordshire.
They named their first son William James, they lived in Staffs 1871,1881 and in 1891, 1901 they were in Bollington.

Hopefully there should be a result from the 1841 shortly

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #12 on: Monday 30 May 05 00:26 BST (UK) »
Hello Peter

Well done on all the information - I'm very impressed!

Though I'm getting really confused about all the James and Marys, and Willcock and Wilcox, I can now clear up one thing you've uncovered: Robert John Willcock was Louisa Willcock's son, but it seems there is no record of who his father was. So I suppose he could have been described as 'son' if William was in fact, as it seems from the 1861 census, Isaac. 

I'll go back into the paper records I have and try to find a bit more from this end.

Thank you again Peter for all your efforts - and results.



Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 01 June 05 07:48 BST (UK) »
Hello again Peter

Hope I'm not merely adding to the confusion but  thought I'd pass on this reference I found via FreeBMD. The four people listed as being married in Warrington in the December 1858 quarter (vol 8c 137) include:

Elizabeth Willcock and William Dickinson Whittaker.

Of course this may be a total red herring but, if William Dickinson Whittaker married this Elizabeth (and not the other one on the list), it was a big coincidence, given the name you found in the 1861 census.

Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 01 June 05 11:03 BST (UK) »
Hi
    Yes I had seen this marriage sometime ago on the http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/ and William D Wittaker did marry an Elizabeth Willcock, but not yours. I found what I believe to be this couple in the 1861 census aged 25 and 23 with a 2year old son Frederick and daug 3 months. So just a big coincidence I think.
   
    Did you ever find Elizabeth as a Willcock on a passenger list if so do you have details, or was it just assumed she travelled out with William/Isaac Kirkham, and what is the story of Robert John Willcock, did he emigrate? as he does not seem to appear on the UK 1871 census.
   Having now searched the 1871 census for a William and a Robert Dickinson and not finding them, I am convinced that there as been a calamitous transcription error on the 1861 for Preston, and it should be W and R Kirkham not Dickinson.

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 14 June 05 01:19 BST (UK) »
Good morning

Thanks for the info about the Whittaker marriage - just goes to show how easily scenarios can be devised to fit a piece of information - and how wrong that can be.

There doesn't seem to be any record of Elizabeth's arrival in Australia, probably because a lot of records were destroyed in the Brisbane floods of the late 19th century. Same goes for William Isaac but the assumption is probably that they travelled together. Elizabeth had her first child in Australia in 1864 and, with the 1861 census information you found, that narrows the dates a bit.

On Robert John: he migrated to Australia in 1880 with his wife, Susanna (nee Spratt). He had been in the army in England. He also seems to have adopted the family tradition of name change as he became Willliam Robert John out here. There might be something in the name William as one of William Isaac's grandsons also changed his name to William something (but was buried under his given name).

I'll go with your knowledge on all this stuff and your conclusion about the transcription error - must have been a transposing of names as the transcriber was able to decipher James and Ophelia's surname correctly.

This does seem to the likely James - William's marriage and death certificates show his father as 'stonecutter' and 'quarryman' so the connection is closer than silk weaver, isn't it? In the context of the times, how likely was that jump to 'butcher'?

And in another coincidence, Louisa and Elizabeth's brother married a Davenport (cf the silk Kirkhams at Hursdfield). in 1841.

Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

Offline Jojosam

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 04 December 05 05:13 GMT (UK) »
Hello Peter

Finally getting around to the Kirkhams again. In one of your posts, you said:

'And also the birth of Robert 1851 Congleton, this birth was the first thing I tried to find but he is not there as Dickinson or Kirkham but I found what I think may be him reg 1851 Congleton Robert John Wilcock ! This may be a must birth certificate to see!'

Sorry, don't know how to do the blue quote thingy - will find out for the future.

My question is, do you still have the reference for Robert John's birth? I want to order the certificate but can't find a reference on Free BMD.

Hope you can help (again).

thank you
Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge,  Quigley, Nixon, Millburne, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Kempster, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill/Ganvin, Hirano, Hedges, Hart, Eardley, Deverell, Currell, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Bonham, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold

Offline peterbennett

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Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 04 December 05 11:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi
    It is not on freeBMD, I found it spelt with a LL, Willcock in the http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/  you can order certificates from there, or looking in the UK General Register the ref is Congleton september quarter 1851 X1X 85 or maybe 55 its difficult to read.

regards

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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