Author Topic: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – engineers, whitesmiths, music hall and burlesque  (Read 15255 times)

Offline ShaunJ

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My ancestor Samuel Jones was a Liverpool whitesmith, also described as a coachsmith and a coach spring maker.

This is him with his family in the 1851 census at No. 3 Court, Upper Dalton Street:

HO107/2192 f 278 p 42

Samuel Jones – Head - 51 – Whitesmith – Liverpool
Sarah – wife - 44 (she was born Sarah Ann Pate in 1805) - do
John – son – 22 – labourer – do
Samuel – son – 16 – errand boy – do (he was baptised Samuel Pate Jones)
Sarah – daur - 10 – do
Thomas – son – 9 – do (he was baptised Thomas Pate Jones)
Peter – son – 6 – Monks Coppenhall, Cheshire

Two other children are missing from this list. They are Robert William Jones (my great-great-grandfather) who is listed as a visitor down the street at Gothic Terrace, and Margaret Jones (born 1836/7).   

By 1861 this family had broken up.

- Robert William Jones married Lucy Parkes in 1853, joined the Royal Navy and became a Chief Engineer.
- Samuel Pate Jones also became a ship’s engineer (we think in the merchant navy) and settled in Sydney NSW around 1865, where he had 13 children with his second wife Susan Cochran. Nothing is known of his first marriage.
- Peter Jones is listed in the 1861 census living with his sister-in-law Lucy in Duke Street, Everton. He is a watch jeweller, probably working for Lucy’s brother John Parkes (founder of John Parkes & Sons, opticians and nautical instrument makers). I can’t see Peter in subsequent censuses. What became of him after 1861?

As for the others, nothing definite is known. What happened to them after 1851?
These names are so common that fishing in the censuses and GRO indices produces a multitude of possibilities. Does anyone have any bright ideas ? 

 
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline aggiebagwash

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 14 October 08 14:08 BST (UK) »
Have you tried the trade directories or newspapers

Margaret

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 14 October 08 16:41 BST (UK) »
Quote
Have you tried the trade directories or newspapers

Yes. I found one interesting item in the Liverpool Mercury (a wedding announcement from December 1826) and some of the 1820's directories list Samuel Jones, whitesmith ( or hosier and whitesmith) at 25 Knight Street. No sign of Samuel in later years though. He's not noted as deceased on his son Robert's  marriage certificate ( December 1853) which is the latest reference I have for him.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline aggiebagwash

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 October 08 16:53 BST (UK) »
Will have a look around for him. Sometimes a fresh eye spots the obvious. LOL

Margaret


Offline matilda_fox

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 16 October 08 15:52 BST (UK) »
Hi - newbie here.

Have a Matilda Jones from Ireland b. 1862 who married a George May of Lancashire. She moved and settled in Lancashire.(Oldham).  Yes, I know it's all needles and haystacks, but if our Jones cross (from Ireland) to your part of the world (and you never know) will share what I find. Perhaps your Jones were from Ireland too???

Good luck to all of us.

matilda
Lancashire UK : Hampson, Burke, Fox, Willmore, May, Jones, Beachem
Ireland: Jones, Burke
Germany or region: Soest
Switzerland: Gerber
Wales: Thomas

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #5 on: Monday 02 August 10 06:35 BST (UK) »
Just discovered from NLA newspapers that Samuel Pate Jones was an engineer on the North Shore Steam Ferry (the Horse Ferry) in Sydney.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online garstonite

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 August 10 08:27 BST (UK) »
Hiya Shaun....do you know what religion they were ?.....if protestant it may be worth looking here
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
 I have found a babtism for Sarah Pate in oct 1806  (father is Peter Pate and mother is Margaret Pate nee Burge ...it states she was born 5th June 1806...
Sarah Pate is not exactly a common name and I think it`s worth looking at

Thomas Pate Jones babtism is on there 19th october 1842 ...abode St Andrew St...so have a look at St Andrew St for 1841 census....
 the family are on lan-opc  BUT it will take a lot of searching ....good luck....allan ;)
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Online garstonite

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 August 10 08:38 BST (UK) »
This is interesting Shaun....Samuels marriage to Sarah is on lan-opc
Samuel Jones   occ   Smith
Sarah Ann PEIT  Spinster
13 december 1826 St Paul church , Liverpool
 but when you put PEIT in the search box it comes up with
Peit
Peat
Peet
Peate
not Pate ...but on the babtism of Thomas it states Pate...so it may have been mistranscribed....
anyway...as they were married in 1826 I would have thought there would be a child born 1827 /1828
is this Robert William Jones ?  Robert and Lucy Parkes married in St Mary church Edge Hill , Liverpool
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
..allan
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Lost Jones family – Liverpool – needles and haystacks….
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 August 10 09:07 BST (UK) »
Yes that's them Allan. The marriage register does say Peit but the newspaper marriage announcement says Pate. Sarah Ann was the daughter of Peter Pate of Pulford in Cheshire, a mariner who died in New York in November 1815 (not announced until his ship the Vere returned to Liverpool in October 1816).
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk