Lost Jones family – Liverpool – engineers, whitesmiths, music hall and burlesque

[macken_h]

Hi,
I am married to a descendent of Samuel Jones the son of Samuel Pate Jones. I have been researching the family here in Australia and I have a couple of questions. 
Samuel Pate was married prior to his arrival in Sydney, Australia. Does anyone know who his first wife was and whether there were any children from this marriage.
There is also a photo of all the brothers which looks like it has been taken at a wedding. Apparently the gentleman at the front, 2nd from the left, is Ernie. Can anyone identify the others?

[ShaunJ]

The nattily dressed chap in front 2nd left is indeed Ernie: Samuel Ernest Jones 1881-1943, son of Samuel Job Jones 1856-1936.

Samuel Job  Jones was the only child of Robert William Jones, brother of Samuel Pate Jones.

I have been in contact with a descendant of one of Ernie's brothers and we don't think the others in this picture are family.

[ShaunJ]

Just to recap, I am looking for these missing Joneses:

Samuel Jones (born Liverpool circa 1799-1800): Coachsmith, Whitesmith, Coachspring Maker, Blacksmith and in 1841 "Ingineer". Last sighted in 1851 census at No 3 Court, Upper Dalton Street.
Sarah Ann Jones (nee Pate, born Liverpool 1805): wife of Samuel. Last definite sighting 1851 census

and their children:

John Jones (born Liverpool circa 1829). Labourer. Last definite sighting 1851 census
Margaret Jones (born Liverpool 1837). Last definite sighting 1841 census with family at St Andrew Street (now found ! See later posts)
Sarah Jones (born Liverpool circa 1840) Last definite sighting 1851 census
Thomas Pate Jones (born Liverpool 1842). Last seen in 1851 census. No subsequent sightings.
Peter Jones (born Monks Coppenhall - Crewe - Cheshire 1845) Watch Jeweller. Not seen after 1861 census where he is living at 124 Duke Street with sister-in-law Lucy Jones (wife of Robert William Jones) and grandmother Charlotte Leadbeater.

[ShaunJ]

And like Macken_h I'd be interested to find out about Samuel Pate Jones' first marriage. All we know is that he was a widower when he married Susan Cochran in Sydney in 1868. In those days he seems to have been plain Samuel Jones - I think the Pate bit was added later (his mother's maiden name).

[ShaunJ]

News!

Have just learned that Margaret Jones married George John Cooper in Castlemaine, Victoria on 30 December 1855. They returned to the UK by the early 1860's and enjoyed a successful career in music hall as Newman & Mortimer (or Mortimore), "the great Australian duettists"

[ShaunJ]

...and it turns out that Margaret Jones, born Liverpool, daughter of Sarah Pate and Samuel Jones, wife of George John Cooper, was the mother of British music hall stars Fanny Robina and Florrie Robina, and also of Master Willie Newman who starred for 6 years as Captain Corcoran in Haverly's juvenile HMS Pinafore in the US.

Tom Bint has written up the story on his website http://www.bint-family.com/robina.htm

This poster is from the Library of Congress website http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/var1993000406/PP/

[ShaunJ]

Here's another snippet of a clue.

There is a report in the "Era" of the December 1871 funeral of music hall artiste "George Newman" (alias George John Cooper, husband of Margaret Jones alias "Miss Jennie Mortimer") at Brompton cemetery:

"...his remains being followed to the grave by his widow and children (four in number), by his two brothers-in-law, officers in the Royal Navy, and by Mr Nat Ogden, comic vocalist."

Two brothers in law who were officers in the Navy !

One of them would be my ancestor Engineer Robert William Jones RN who was UK based (at Portsea) at that time. But who was the other one?

Margaret had 4 other brothers that I know of:

John 1829 who was a labourer in the 1851 census
Samuel 1835 who by this time was living in Sydney NSW
Thomas 1842
Peter 1845 who was a watch jeweler in 1861

Of these, only Thomas seems a possible candidate but I can't find a likely match among the RN officers listed in the TNA database.

Other possibilities would be a husband of Margaret's sister Sarah Jones (1840), or a relative on the Cooper side, of which we know very little. George John Cooper was born in Chatham circa 1824, mother Ann, and had Taylor relatives in Chatham.

[ShaunJ]

I've found the first marriage of Samuel Pate Jones (in those days he was plain Samuel Jones):

20 October 1857 at St Mary's Cathedral (RC) in Sydney:

Samuel Jones, bachelor, 21, a stoker born Liverpool England; parents Samuel Jones, a whitesmith, and Sarah

Catherine Donahoe, spinster, 22 a servant born Co Cork Ireland, parents Daniel Donohoe, a weaver, and Johanna Leary.

Same address given for both. Wallace's Lane, off Kent Street, Sydney.

Witnesses John Kelly, Enor Kelly

Catherine drowned in Sydney harbour in 1866 - there is a press report of the inquest in SMH  (http://tinyurl.com/nq8xs3c - see final column "Death from drowning".)

There was a child (John) who lived for only 13 days in 1860. Inquest report in the Sydney Empire 31 May 1860  http://tinyurl.com/nmu3fv8

[macken_h]

Hi Shaun,
Well done on your research.
Interesting reading regarding the death of his first wife.
Hilary