there must be a deep dark hole somewhere!!

[Finley 1]

Patricks and Jenkins / Jenkinson

I am still stuck all this time later on this one

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,240435.0.html

Bless you all for previous assistance --- It did give me more avenues to try ---
but still nothing positive:

I really need to find Frederick Raven Patrick (considered to be son) of John Raven Patrick
Birth date I have is:      1859 Leicester
marriage                       1879 to Phillipa Hellyar
John Raven and Sarah married:  1864


I have the census returns that prove his existance and his marriage cert.

I cannot find his BIRTH
or his definate Death..... the only possible death around the time would mean he was 8 yrs younger than we had supposed...!?!? and I think that is wrong.

Its all down to John Raven Patricks first wife dying Emma Taylor... they had two children and I cannot find any more on them  ( they slipped down the hole)
He married again and I have the wed cert  that shows Sarah Jenkinson as his wife (no father)
but as stated on the previous topic  she is not the one shown in 1842  yet her birth is around that time?

The worst scenario is that Fred is Sarahs pre marriage to John.... and that means no direct blood line!!

There is no record of further children for John and Sarah.......

where else can I look -- I have searched Ancestry... and the I.G.I  and free bmd etc...

thanks for any help xinia

[j-allen]

Hi xinia

Have you actually sent for the death certificate that you say has the wrong age on it? It is often worth spending the money to find out. John Raven Patrick is qute an unusual name and I would think highly unlikely anyone else had it.

Often when deaths were registered, you will find that neighbours and people not directly connected to the family registered the deaths. That being so, it is highly likely that they do not know the exact age of the deceased.

It may be worth a shot!

j-allen

[lizdb]

I see in 1871 Sarah is 28 and Frederick is 10. He, as you know, has taken his stepfathers surname which he obviously uses consistantly.

Going back to 1861 there is not a Sarah Jenkinson with a young Frederick
BUT
at RG9 2288 86 11
there is an 18 yr old Sarah Allen, with a 5 mth old son Frederick, both born Leiceister. They are boarders in a h/h.

Now, I cant find a marriage for a Sarah Allen to a Jenkinson - nor any other obvious connection between the names, but is it a remote possibility that Sarah Allen and Sarah Jenkinson are one and the same? No evidence - this is just a wild idea at present.

[Finley 1]

hello 2 you both J. Allen and lizdb
thanks for interest...

I havent sent off for the death cert........... I will I will I will... (thats to remind me)  now just a minute are we talking about JRP's death cert... i thinks so.... yes thats ok I have the ref... 7a 137 ...
see what this branch is doing to me!!!

Its funny you should mention Sarah Allen   I have been there I think 'Mike' suggested it and gave me the details   -- but as you say the lack of obvious connection --

I actually got up the 1861 for st margarets and searched the lot.... and found all sorts of confusing things
as in St. Margarets.. RG 9/2285 Cotton or Colton st..  I find a John Raven, Caroline Raven, and a Mary Pattrick....all listed as nieces and nephews of John and Alice Parker ....  now this may just be one of those leads that takes me nowhere... but it shows that the family seem to leave the kids with various relations at various times,  the 1841 shows John Raven Patrick age 9 with John Raven and wife Ann.  I have set this John Raven as brother to Catherine ....Jrps mom...

I wonder if they may have travelled about a bit and left the kids whilst on their travels...

I dont know I really dont...

It is getting to be more likely that Fred was Sarahs... whoever she was... I have the marriage cert for her and John .. they both left from the same address and there is no named father for her... but she is down as Jenkinson ... the witness were Henry Adams and Susanah Pattrick..
Niether John or Sarah could write, as they both left there 'Mark'!!
But even tho apart from all this what the heck happened to William and Rachel from Johns first marriage!  I thought that maybe William's name had been changed to Fred... (hoping) but that was a no go.........

thanks again...

xXinia


Just gone over the stuff from 'Mike' from Leicester and you know what!!! that Sarah Allen was indexed as Jenkins in the 1851.... as per this from 'Mike'

1851. Indexed Census returns:~
HO 107 / 2089 / 69 / Page 17
Leicester.
St. Margaret’s Parish
No 5 Earl Street.
WILLIAM   ALLEN   Head   M   51   M   F.W.K   Lei   Stoney Stanton
MARY   ALLEN   Wife   M   58   F      Lei   Heather
ANN D   ALLEN   Dau      18   F      Lei   Hinckley
SARAH   JENKINS   Gdau      8   F         [Blank]

so I will go into this lot again.....

xxxinia

[carol8353]

I cannot find his BIRTH
or his definate Death..... the only possible death around the time would mean he was 8 yrs younger than we had supposed...!?!? and I think that is wrong.

On the previous thread Mike from Leicester has found John Raven Patrick's baptism in 1831- so he would have actually been 64 in 1895- whereas whoever informed the registrar of his death said that he was 62- not a massive difference ?

Carol

[Finley 1]

thanks Carol
I will go for that one I am sure it will be correct 
Off to order it NOW  before i put it on one side again..

all help v.much appreciated.....

xinia

[Finley 1]

DID IT ordered death certs (at last) for John and Sarah.....should arrive Nov.25th approx.. so we will see where that leads..

with regard to the Allens  link...

Frederick Allen born in Hinckley 1857..... is this worth looking into?!? who knows.

xxinia

[j-allen]

Hi xinia

Goodie, do let us know if it is him!

j-allen

[Finley 1]

will do   ..........  put a big note on desk top to remember


xin